#1 Alizée Froment über Pferdepersönlichkeiten und das Halsring-Reiten

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[SPEAKER 2]We are very happy to have our first podcast with one of our big stars from Feria, which is Alize Froment. Alize, we are very happy to have you with our first podcast.

[SPEAKER 1]Thank you, I’m happy too.

[SPEAKER 2]You are one of our great stars of Feria. We, a couple of years ago, had a DVD with you, which was The Spirit of Dressage and Joyriding Without a Bit. You are known here in Germany and throughout the world as a rider that is very professional with riding without a bit. And you’ve been writing internationally for France on Grand Prix level since 2006. Many wins, many placings. But especially you’re known for your shows, like here at Aquitana with the Hop Top Show with the Australian Mistral. And there you’re also writing without a neck rope, with nothing but a neck rope.

[SPEAKER 1]That’s the way.

[SPEAKER 2]You integrate the neck rope into your everyday training, you’re a former national trainer of the French pony dressage team and nowadays you give lessons all over the world and we are very excited to hear from you what’s so special about your work, what’s so special about your DVD and your films that we have on our online platform. Who or what inspired you to start riding without a bit and with a neck rope?

[SPEAKER 1]Well, I have to say nobody, because it didn’t come from something I thought about for a long time. It was always a feeling. The first time with a halter, because it was just a normal halter, was just one day and I was needing to change something. I said, OK, today we don’t put the snaffle, we just keep the halter. But that was just a game. And that was the same with the rope at the beginning. It was just an idea. But it’s not because I’ve seen someone somewhere, or it was not with a special idea, or it was just a feeling, I have to say. So it was coming from nowhere. I just can say that when I was young, as children, with my mom, we were Playing with the ponies in the garden, free. So probably it’s something that I always got inside me. But if it’s coming from somewhere, it’s from my childhood and my mother.

[SPEAKER 2]So you grew up with horses, you always had horses in your family surrounding.

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, because my mother, she had a pony club that was working only during the holidays because it was in south of France and we were living in Paris. But every holidays I was working, not working, but I was playing with ponies in the south of France, yes. That’s where I learned everything.

[SPEAKER 2]So what were the big step stones for you to come that far, to be a star of a top show, to be renowned all over the world? What were the key points in your career so far? Hopefully and probably the career is going to last for more time than now. And what were the key drivers, the step stones for you to come this far?

[SPEAKER 1]I have to say I have no idea. I was a little bit surprised because everything came so fast and I was absolutely not prepared for it because I’ve never, I never made it with the idea of of being successful or making some noise around it. So at the beginning, to be honest, the first time I put the rope on, I went directly without the saddle and my groom, she told me, you are definitely crazy. And so she took the camera, but at the beginning it was more because she said, you’re going to fall today, so I want to have it in the camera. So she was filming. But Misral was perfect this day. I made directly the two tempis, the tempis, the pirouette. I was very surprised, but it was also a very beautiful moment. It was an emotional moment. So I made a video and I put it on YouTube as the first one, also without the saddle and with a bit less bridle. And this video, a lot of people have seen it and then it came so fast. But I never had the idea that it would be something like that. It’s quite a crazy history. And then I made the show. I stopped my dressage career because I had a strong period in my life. So I was needing to change something. And I decided to go more to the show part. And so I built Phoenix. That was the first one on the rope. And Equitana told me, OK, we would like to have this show in Equitana but a little bit different because we want something new for Equitana. So we built Pure Harmonie for Equitana 2015 and then after Equitana it never ever stopped. Since two years we’re on the road the whole time.

[SPEAKER 2]But to go back into your history, when you started you said your groom felt that you were going crazy.

[SPEAKER 1]yeah all the time the first time when i said okay today i’m gonna go with the halter she said oh and then without the seller she said even more okay and with the rope okay then definitely and okay now we cannot put anything away but Yeah, it’s because you never know. Of course, Mizrahi, he’s a stallion and he’s a strong stallion because the people, they always think that he’s very sweet and but he’s very strong and a real stallion. Yes. A real, real stallion. And so you never know what is going to happen because at the end, they are always animals. So they are alive. And if he decides that he doesn’t want to make it anymore, Of course, you have a rope, he can make everything he wants. But he can play, he can be so hot in the warm-up sometimes, especially when you have ponies in the same place, then he can get really crazy. But when he knows that I need him, he’s always, always there. And that’s why it’s working, because I have no doubt about it. When I need him, he will be there. He can play before, he can play after, but he never betray me.

[SPEAKER 2]In our Feria films, we have a couple of horses featuring. You also already talked about Mistral, which is a stallion, Lusitano stallion. Then you have Sultan.

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, that is a son from Mistral.

[SPEAKER 2]Son from Mistral, of course, Lusitano, but he’s a gelding. Do you think there is that If the gender of the horse makes a difference, do you think it doesn’t matter? Some people say with mares probably it doesn’t work.

[SPEAKER 1]No, the difference is in the personality of the horse. It’s like humans, but you cannot make a generality and say, OK, all the Stanians are better or the mares or the gelding. It depends. They are all different. For me, I have no gender. I can’t say, okay, I just want to work with stallions or with gelding or I don’t want any mare. That’s not working like that. And your heart is the only one that is taking the decision.

[SPEAKER 2]How do you establish a connection between you and the horse? Is it love at first sight? Do you start to work together and then you feel okay? Will you fit? Or how does it evolve?

[SPEAKER 1]It’s a lot of time. always well then you always have the feeling i know with some horses i know that something is special it’s a special connection but it’s the same with humans you have people you directly you’re you feel directly very close to them even if you don’t know them very very good and you have some people you know them for years and years and you will never be close. That’s the same with horses. It’s working the same way. But even like that, even if you have your heartbreaker and and you’re so much in love with a horse, then it’s so much time and patience to build this relationship. For example, with Sultan, Sultan is a very hard and strong character and he doesn’t look like, so everybody says, oh, he’s an angel. but he’s so strong and it took me so long and even here in the hop-top show yesterday he was in a very bad mood the whole day he was very depressed because at home he’s living in the field here he’s blocked in the box and even if we are walking him four times 20 minutes a day it’s not very funny it’s still walking by hand, in a parking, so of course that’s not the same than living in the field. And when he’s like this, you need to just spend so much time with him to keep the relationship as close as possible. And it’s not something you build one day and it’s forever. Every day you have to continue to build the relationship.

[SPEAKER 2]In the films we shooted with you, that we’re also going to refer in the show notes, we also have a Welsh A-Stallion, Petit Pirat, and Aslan, Pura Raza Española, Pure Spanish Blood. How do you find those horses, or you just see them and say, OK, I think it’s going to work with us?

[SPEAKER 1]Well, those two, to be honest, Pirate, I was in Spain to search horses because I knew someone that was living in America and he wanted me to check some horses in Spain for clients of him. So as I was close to Spain, I said, OK, I’m going to go and see the horses you want. And he was in one of the stables. And I felt in love, because he was so sweet and so funny. So I took him back home, but I had any idea about what to do with him. No idea. Because, OK, he was so small, and my work is not, I’m riding the horses and then making the groundwork. But a pony, it was absolutely not in my plans. So, but I’m learning a lot with him because then I have to always find new way and especially because with him you cannot put some clear rules. He doesn’t accept it and he cannot handle it. So you have to adapt yourself and that’s very interesting. And then Aslan, it was the same. I’ve seen him in a box in Spain and I said okay. He looks good, but he was lame when I’ve seen him. He was two years and a half. And when he went out from the box, he was completely lame because he had one hoof that was absolutely not great. But I said, OK, he’s very not expensive, and he’s pretty.

[SPEAKER 2]You like pretty horses, of course.

[SPEAKER 1]Who doesn’t? I will make something with him. And the thing is, when he arrived, He had a very horrible transport. So when he arrived home, he was so much hungry. And so he was eating so fast. And then all the food was blocked here in his throat.

[SPEAKER 2]Really?

[SPEAKER 1]Yes. And so he was feeling so bad. And I’ve been walking him. It was night already because it was in winter and I’ve been walking him a lot until the moment he was feeling better. And so walking and walking, I was trying to find his attention. So I started with walk out, a little bit of rain back and play with him. And since this day, we were so, so close together. Unfortunately, I had to sell him because I had to buy a truck, a small truck, because mine was completely broken. And I miss him every day. He was, I think, after Miskhal, he was the first one that took so much space in my heart. He was very special for me.

[SPEAKER 2]In the films, in the Feria films with you, we see the way you work your horses, the way you train the horses. How does the daily routine for you look like? Is it tailor-made for every horse or do you kind of train the same thing with the same horse?

[SPEAKER 1]No, they all have their own schedule. Mishal now he’s 17 years old, for example, so I’m just making two, three small gymnastic work during the week and then I’m going outside for contouring or just on the rope to eat the grass and have a happy life, easy life. He knows the job and I don’t want to push him. He doesn’t need it and he’s full power and very happy like that and I think it’s the way it’s working very great. Sultan, he, well, since the film has been done, he has changed a lot. He has changed in his way of work, of course, but so much in his character also, because we became much more close together. and now it’s completely different. But I made also everything in another way, so I’m always working him a little bit, like 25-30 minutes, or in the arena, gymnastics, dressage, normal work, or outside, or lunch, and then he’s going back to the box for one hour, and I’m riding Mistral or another horses in between and then I’m doing the groundwork outside again. Why? Because I don’t want to make the groundwork without having the muscles warm already. This is so important. You cannot go out from the box or even from the field and make the groundwork without having the muscles in the right way. So that’s the way we are making it and it’s working very well.

[SPEAKER 2]And I think that also comes through very much in the films we have with you. You have to lay the groundwork before you start writing only with a neck rope. And when I feel and see the horse scene right now, so many people try riding without a bit, try riding with a neck rope. How do you feel about that, that more and more people realize that it might be a good way to work horses?

[SPEAKER 1]I think that’s good, but that’s risky. Because working without a bit or on a neck rope is not being fair and nice to a horse if you’re not doing it in the right way. And the problem is you’re good and fair to the horse when you have done all the basic work before in a good way. So the horses, they are prepared and they are ready to handle it. But when you are just making it as a circus, then it’s not working because then it’s so much painful for the back of the horse because they are not able to carry themselves. And I’ve seen it a lot during clinics. People, they want to make neck rope work and or bit less work. And all the time, we first need to make the basis. And when the basics are OK, then I said, OK, now we do it. And it’s always working great. But when they arrive, they are making kind of circus things. And the horses, they are completely lost in their balance, in their mind, because nothing is clear enough. And this is not great. You need to have clear rules. if you want to be fair to the horses.

[SPEAKER 2]Of course, if you have someone approaching you that says, OK, I’m a dressage rider, I want to start riding with a neck rope, what do you recommend? How many months or how much effort of training do they have to put into to start, as you said, in a fair manner to treat the horse and start without riding a bridle? How long does it take?

[SPEAKER 1]not long, you just need to have the basic very safe and easy and when the horse is trusting you and confident with you and you’re trusting the horse and confident with your horse then you just, you know, you’re making a gymnastic normal warm-up and then you put the neck rope you just make some halt and go again and halt and go again keeping the snaffle on if you need or the beatless bridle But when the horse is listening and understands the role from the rope, then you put out the snaffle and everything is so easy. It’s not so hard. Because the A’s are the same. If you’re riding with your back, your seat and your legs, then you just have to make the half hold on the rope to help with the balance. But that’s it. You don’t need more.

[SPEAKER 2]And that eventually goes back to classical riding, classical schooling.

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, sure. But this is the point. You need to ride your horse exactly in the same way than if you would have a snaffle. You need to want to have the same goals, the same precision, the same, yes, objective. It’s important, because I got some riders, they said, yes, but I’m on the rope, so I cannot do a proper leg yield. Of course, you can. If it’s just to make a bad one, but you’re in the rope, so that’s great. It’s not working. You need to want to make a proper classical dressage without nothing. This is the point.

[SPEAKER 2]And that also doesn’t matter whether you have a bridal or you don’t have a bridal, you have to have a certain level of trust and you have to listen to the horse and hear into the horse in order to maintain or attain that. We talked about the way you select the horses, we talked about the way you actually bring out your philosophy and your ideas about riding a horse and then we talked about your daily routines. How do you live back home? How do you live with your horses back home? Do you have a big barn or is it a little smaller? How is the daily life of Alice?

[SPEAKER 1]Our home is very very small and completely private because we are always on the road and so it’s always so much people around and noise and activity and when we come back we are so happy to have such a close small and quiet stable. We’re just in front of the mountain and you can hear the birds the whole time. We are completely away from big cities and this is important because when you when we are back home it’s never for more than five six days and then we can breathe and relax and enjoy and yes this is I think the key point to have my horses always with me even if on tour it’s so much work and so much pressure when they are home they just relax and enjoy and I want to keep this and I have so much people that are sending me some emails to come home for training or to watch or No, because when I’m home, we are going outside. We are just entering, enjoying, relaxing, and we need it.

[SPEAKER 2]We on Facebook, with the plenty of Facebook fans we have, we receive emails from fans that really like the way you work with horses, that like your philosophy, that also want to try out riding without a bridle and with a neck rope. How do you feel about the hype that is around you? And that has grown, at least what we feel, especially also with our films and with the streaming platform. How do you feel about the hype that has been around you and your person and your philosophy in the recent years?

[SPEAKER 1]That’s not the part I prefer, I have to say. It’s just because I don’t like so much the light.

[SPEAKER 2]I like… The limelight.

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah. I like to be quiet and I like to be… yes, to be quiet to make my work. And when you have so much people around, you also have people that want to fight you even if you you’re just at the end you’re just a normal person making your own research and then you have people waiting so much things from you and that want you to carry their dreams and and I just want to make my work quietly with my horses and sometimes I just feel okay I need to breathe and and to have the right to be nobody

[SPEAKER 2]And that eventually brings us back to the philosophy that it is basically you and the horses and the way you want to treat horses. It’s not about the hype that is built around it.

[SPEAKER 1]No, no, no, no. And I don’t want, because I think, and this is dangerous in in the riding world and horses world you have a little bit too much big fight and with people that want to be some guru and they are the only one to know the right thing and they have the only system the only method and i’m completely against all of this i think you always need All the horses, they are all different. So you don’t have one system. You always have to adapt yourself. And with each horse, you have to start again from the beginning. And you will try to give an answer that was working. For example, with Mistral, I have an answer, and I want to make the same with Sultan, but it’s not working. So I have to find another answer. But if I try it with Mistral, it’s not working. So if you want to have only one system, for me, you are on the wrong way. So you have to open your mind and stop fighting the whole world and everybody talking too much. And no, it’s the horses, they don’t need to have all this big, big war around them. You just need to search. And sometimes we’re making mistakes, but everybody’s making mistakes. I don’t know one person that has never done any mistake. And it’s how you learn, actually. You try something, it’s not working, okay, then you’re searching the whole evening, the whole night, and the day after you start again, and you say, oh, okay, it’s working. And that’s the way, the only way for me.

[SPEAKER 2]Do you ever give up on the horse?

[SPEAKER 1]No. I was close to make it with Sultan because Sultan was so strong and sometimes I said I will never find a way with him because Sultan is living in his own world, you cannot enter in his world or it was not possible to enter because today I’m wrong when I say this because he opened completely his mind. But I have to say when we were on tour, Sultan is so focused on me because I’m his leader. But when he’s home and when I’m going to work with him, I’m not his leader anymore. He’s home and he’s in his own world and then I’m something not comfortable. I’m entering his world and It took me a lot of time to understand all this way, and with Sultan you always have to find a way. So he wants to make what you want him to make. But if you say, OK, now I want this, you give me this, it will never work. So you always have to find a way to discuss with him. And yeah, it’s completely different. It’s the only horse I had like this. But you always have to find and what was working one day is not working the day after. So it’s always looking for something different. And when we are in shows, you always have to be prepared because each evening he will be different. But when you have 9000 people in your arena, then sometimes you say, OK, I don’t know what is going to happen. And this is my room. She’s always Sultan is the big, big, big one, because each show is different. And she’s always so stressed because she doesn’t know what is going to happen. But it’s it’s also giving a very big emotion because when he’s amazing, and he’s more and more safe. It gives a feeling that you don’t have so much in your life. Because when he opens everything, he’s different than all the others.

[SPEAKER 2]what the Ferdia fans really like about you that you’re always fair towards the horse and you always try to be on an equal level with the horse. That is also very important and part of your philosophy to be fair to horses.

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, because I think it’s part of the trust and also I think you need to Once again, it’s exactly the same as with humans. You take one horse and if you put him in one environment, he will grow in one way. And on another one, he will grow in a different way. And I’m always part in the way you let them having the biggest personality. But it’s more risky because then they are also with big personality. You don’t have them under control as all the ones that work a lot to be a real leader and to have all the control. I don’t have all the control on my horses, and I know it. But it’s my way because then the personality is very big and we are discussing together. But with Mistral it’s the same, we are always discussing.

[SPEAKER 2]You talked about the development of horses, about Sultan, Mistral, and the other horses that are in the films, Petit Pirat and Aslan, which was the one you sold, right? Where do you see you and your horses in the future? What is the future way of Alizé Froment going to be like?

[SPEAKER 1]I don’t know, because when I see one year ago, when I see, for example, the film, I think we made it, we filmed it two years ago now, and already when one year ago, when the DVD was ready, I said, oh my God, but it’s horrible because we made such a long way in between, and now I feel like I was a little baby. in this DVD, because every day we are learning so much things. And two years ago, I was not able to say, OK, in two years I will be there. So in the next two years, I have no idea. I will see. I see it every day.

[SPEAKER 2]I think learning is a good topic because we at Ferdia really believe that with the films we shoot with you, people can learn at home and can try to at least apply your philosophy, sometimes with the horse. I think it takes a lot of time and effort, but it’s really worth it to watch the DVD and we are very happy to have you here for our first podcast. And we prepared four classical failure questions. We’re going to ask everyone that we’re going to do a podcast with. You are going to be the first one. So I’m very excited about your answers. And the first classical failure question is, do you have a certain motto or philosophy of life?

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, always trusting and following the dreams we have. I think this is very important. And so many people, they left the dreams and goals they had when they were children. And I think they are the biggest ones. And we always have to follow it. That’s my philosophy. I’m always following and trying to remember the dreams and goals I had when I was a little girl.

[SPEAKER 2]Who inspired you most so far in your life?

[SPEAKER 1]I’m not… I had… or it’s so much people or it’s no one, but I can’t say one person because I think it’s… I got so much information from so many different trainers, people I met. I’ve been watching and so it would take a lot of time. I can say that one helped me so much. He’s called Hubert Perrin. He was my trainer and he gave me all the gymnastic philosophy and this is my daily routine and work. But then you have so much people everywhere in the world.

[SPEAKER 2]If you could recommend one thing to a rider, someone that is interested in the way you work horses, the way you treat horses, the way you develop your own philosophy, what would it be?

[SPEAKER 1]Opening the mind. Opening the mind and always be… never stop to search for something better.

[SPEAKER 2]Great. And the fourth and last question is another question I want you to complete this sentence. For me, horses are?

[SPEAKER 1]The truth.

[SPEAKER 2]I think that’s a great answer to our four classical failure questions. That was our first podcast with you, Alize.

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, I’m happy to be the first one.

[SPEAKER 2]It was very cool. We’re all very excited and we’re also a little nervous before. Very cool interview. We’re going to refer everything for our Feria fans in the show notes. We have a DVD with you, Alize Froment, The Spirit of Dressage. Enjoy writing without the beat. We have you on our streaming platform. Thank you very much. Merci beaucoup, Alizée.

[SPEAKER 1]

It was a pleasure.

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