#59 Working for your luck with international showjumper Richard Vogel

[SPEAKER 3]
[00:00:02-00:00:10]
On this episode, we're speaking with Richard Vogel, an international show jumper ranked number one in Germany and number 10 in the world.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:00:11-00:00:23]
What I think all exceptional horses have is really a very special character. They are not necessarily the type to go along with everything, which should be accepted and left as they are, in my opinion.

[SPEAKER 3]
[00:00:25-00:02:15]
Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from WeHorse. My name is Danielle Crowell and I'm your host. Before we get started with this episode, it's important to note that this was actually recorded in June 2024 in German for the WeHorse podcast based in Germany. We use translation software to dub the episode for our English podcast, this one that you're listening to here, the Equestrian Connection. So please excuse any imperfections in the conversation as a result. Richard Vogel is a German rider who started riding horses at the age of four, following in the footsteps of his family, who have always had a strong passion for horses. He began competing at the age of seven and since then has achieved numerous national and international successes. After a riding apprenticeship and valuable years of training with Ludger Bierbaum, starting in 2015, today Richard Vogel is number one in the German show jumper and sits at number 10 in the world rankings. Currently, Richard continues to compete internationally and represent Germany in various equestrian competitions. At the same time, he runs a business together with Sophie Hinners and David Will, which is a sports and sales stable in Hesse with two locations known for the first class training of showjumpers. Richard's philosophy can be summarized by his motto, the more you work, the luckier you get. In this podcast episode, Richard Vogel tells host Christian Kroeber how he worked for his success from an early age, why his business partners rarely compete in the same competitions as he does, what he thinks makes a good rider, and what he thinks needs to change if we still want to be able to experience equestrian sport 20 years from now. Interested? Dive in. And once again, please excuse any imperfections in this translated conversation. Enjoy.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:02:18-00:02:22]
Hi, Richie. I called you Richie just now. Is that your nickname? Do people call you Richie?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:02:22-00:02:23]
Most of them, yes.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:02:24-00:02:39]
We're sitting here in early summer. You've won big awards like Geneva or Wellington. Or just a few weeks ago, Mannheim was actually... According to the world ranking, the best show jumper in Germany? How does it feel?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:02:39-00:03:19]
Yes, that's probably some kind of confirmation of the recent successes the last few months. But nevertheless, I'm not one to brag about it. It can all be over very quickly again. I think we still have to continue. focus on the horses, do good work, ride them well at home, that we make sure to always bring up young horses, and of course try to build on that success for a while. That's obviously the goal. But as I said, I think resting on your laurels would be the wrong approach.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:03:19-00:03:23]
But that sounds so detached now as if it were the most normal thing in the world.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:03:23-00:03:46]
It's definitely not the most normal thing in the world. But as I said, it's really just a result of multiple successful tournaments. And that's why we go to a tournament every week. But if we're heading towards the four or five stars now, we usually don't go there to ride afterwards. And hence, of course, that's also a goal that has been more or less achieved, but not now.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:03:47-00:03:48]
Is this an intermediate stage?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:03:48-00:05:25]
I wouldn't say that. So many factors are involved. The horses have to be healthy and you have to be healthy. I couldn't guarantee or confirm that this will continue forever. or you don't want to overuse or overload any single horse, which can then lead to injuries and so on. For example, United Touch, I believe, has already... He hasn't joined the tournament for seven or even eight weeks. Now he's going to St. Gallen next week, but had he been pushing harder to rise even more, he certainly would have had to play another tournament recently. But as I said, I think it should all be enjoyed in moderation or rather... If you're too ambitious and only focus on moving forward, I think this could backfire quickly. I believe the focus should still be up there. Which horses you have in the stable, what the best competition plan is for each horse, where and in which jumps can you use them. Often, for example, as I said, I had a great tournament in Mannheim two weeks ago. In quotes, just three stars. but it was just right for the horses I had with me. The level at which they can be very successful at the moment, and that's why it was definitely more sensible for me, besides or apart from the fact that it is my home tournament, Mannheim. Still for the team, three stars made more sense than going for five stars in the same week to chase after, so to speak.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:05:25-00:05:36]
In Mannheim, when you won, you interacted a lot with the audience during your victory lap. What does success mean to you? Is it, for example, having a connection with the audience? What does success mean for you in the saddle?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:05:37-00:06:14]
Yes, those are, of course, all great things that come along little by little. I think it's a bit... The reward for all the hard work, that's success for me. You work a lot and sometimes nothing comes out of it, so to speak. But yeah, most of the success is celebrated as an athlete, I think can generally be said. Even in show jumping, a lot of work goes into it. And the success is probably a bit of a reward for that.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:06:15-00:06:23]
Is it just the work? Work also includes other factors. You need a good horse. You need talent, of course.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:06:24-00:08:02]
Yeah, like you said, a lot of things can happen there. You need a certain talent, but a lot can be balanced out with work. I'm really strongly convinced of that, but that's not enough by itself. Like you said, you need the right vehicle. You need the right pattern, the horse. Then you need the right team behind you. That's where it starts. Continues over, because if you already, which makes a slightly bigger frame and goes to multiple tournaments almost every week. then you also need good people at home to ride the horses that are currently on break. I've now been, for example, since I left Tuesday evening, arrived here in Hohenwischendorf on Sunday, and next Wednesday I'm off again to St. Gallen. United Touch is at home. I need to be able to rely on him, well taken care of and well trained. Otherwise, next week, it's not going to happen at all. So there are many people. They must work hand in hand with each other. That's already quite complex. Then if you ever have a good horse, many or most people make a living from it. You can quickly ask about selling it. Well, right now, I'm obviously in a very luxurious situation where I have... One or two fantastic horse owners who aren't interested in selling the horses. For those who see owning a horse as a bit of a hobby and a dream, a hobby and passion is to then follow their horses at competitions. And especially when things are going so well, they naturally have a lot of fun with it too. But of course, it's not a given to owners by...

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:08:03-00:08:24]
stay calm and supportive even when the stakes get higher is is actually not for sale and we'll keep it for a while especially remarkable that you currently have so many horses at the top level is it just a coincidence that everything has come together at this particular time or is this the result of a clear plan Yes, a bit.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:08:24-00:09:13]
No clear plan, though. That was kind of a vision. And even two or three years ago, we actually had quite a lot of horses, probably more than we might have, just when we could immediately use. And also a few horses that did more work. than maybe was necessary at the time but out of these relatively many horses yes there's always the possibility that you could keep one for longer hold on to it longer and really bring it up to higher levels of sport so to speak and yes if it goes very happily and positively for us Maybe we'll find someone who continues to secure the horse for us.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:09:13-00:09:17]
What, in your view, sets your handling horses?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:09:18-00:09:50]
I think you always have to have a clear direction with the horses. They always know with me when they've done well, but they also know when things aren't going so well. Especially with young horses, they know at our place what is asked, what is not asked. Then I think it's like with a dog too. If a dog is well trained and well behaved, they actually have the best life because they already know relatively early what is good, what is bad. And I think when the weather changes every day and you're in a good mood, everyone has good days and bad days.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:09:51-00:09:52]
They have a good effects department, don't they?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:09:53-00:10:23]
and you decide what the horse can do based on that I'd say when you lose it turn around tear open the bag of carrots and help yourself and the next day when you might not be in a good mood then that is not acceptable or then the horse is not allowed so it's not even about whether it's right or wrong I think the horse should know I think it's actually important to have relatively clear guidelines so the horse always knows where it stands.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:10:24-00:10:33]
In your view, what makes a world-class horse? I mean, with United Touch, you have a horse that competes at the highest level. I think everyone agrees on that.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:10:34-00:10:56]
You're probably going to the Olympics this year. Yes. So that's another step. We are definitely on the short list, but nothing has been decided yet. Everyone still needs to stay fit and healthy. And of course, we also have a few qualifications. I think it's only certain once we're really on our way.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:10:56-00:11:10]
United Touch and speaking more broadly, what is a horse doing on something like that at such a level? Are there skills or traits, talents that stand out to work successfully with me at this level?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:11:11-00:13:22]
Well, I think can basically be all kinds of different types of horses. If we're talking about physique, big, small, big gallop, little gallop. Okay, they all need a basic ability to some extent. And of course, a certain basic level of caution and so on. And what I think all exceptional horses have is really a very special character. They are not necessarily the type to go along with everything. um many of the better horses or almost all of them i would say also a bit of the quirks and edges which should be accepted and left as they are in my opinion you shouldn't and can't force them into a mold. Even now with United Touch, of course, it is desirable and preferable to achieve as much correctness as possible with him so that I can manage the canter in the course a bit better, like the courses, who can better pace himself with his huge stride. But he also somewhat lives off that freedom, and because of that, he definitely jumps even better and then I can rely on him to be really sharp and think along and I believe that since I've had him my biggest achievement is that he in the jumping course he became much quicker thinks way more and developed a certain fighting spirit he doesn't even need to to clear the highest and broadest oxer another one who maybe only had 1.55 meters that needs to jump over really tall oxes he might need a fighting spirit He needs the fighting spirit more for, as I said, in a tight combination with another. He really has to put in physical effort for that just to get the gallop refined again and even a takeoff when it is already tight to really jump through the body once again. He can now do things that I would have never thought possible in the beginning, that he has all the jumping ability and otherwise enormous quality. That was always clear. But I think this kind of that he thinks more during the course, also already looking for the jump in the turn and things like that. I think that really pushed us forward again last year.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:13:23-00:13:29]
How much do you have to adjust to different horses? They all have very specific character traits.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:13:30-00:15:00]
Yes, very. So, as you say, they are not only physically very different, but also in terms of the type, the character, the mentality. You sometimes have to slow one of them down a bit. He's sometimes overzealous, too frantic. You have to radiate a bit of calm. one is already a bit calm within themselves so there are the wildest opposites and like I said I am a big advocate for it that the rider has to adapt to the horse and actually You have to encourage the horse's strengths and compensate for its weaknesses a bit. And of course we have to try to improve them over a longer period of time. Many riders focus too much on the horse's weaknesses. So at United Touch, a lot of people came up to me and said, but he's so slow and the gallop is too big and it's all so awkward. Earlier, 30 years ago, that would have been an amazing horse. But nowadays, it doesn't fit as well. But you can also see your big gallop as a strength and just know where others might do a quiet four, I can do a smooth three. It's extreme, but in jumps of five or six, we often do one less and then almost turn it into a strength. I think that's also a quality of a good rider. Kind of knows how to turn a horse's supposed weakness into a strength.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:15:01-00:15:22]
It's kind of a small tinkering job, actually. to see how everything fits together to make the whole project successful. You come from Baden-Württemberg and then you did a pretty typical, in quotes, apprenticeship with the Herbert family in Fernheim. Was the path to becoming a professional rider always set for you?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:15:22-00:16:03]
I have to say, I always went with my uncle Richard Krum, also named Richard, to Funkstadt, to the Prinzenberg Stadion. Where you are right now. Where we are now. But back then, Dietmar Gugler was still there. And she wants Sabancı, a Turkish woman for whom my uncle worked back then and still works now. But now they have their own stable. Anyway, I am with my uncle over there. Always found it impressive as it was. She wants to know what happened to my uncle in the stable. But what impressed me even more was to see the young people in quotes over on Steel Alley, working at Dietmar's place in the stable.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:16:03-00:16:07]
The one who has always heard many young talents was a young national coach and so on.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:16:07-00:16:23]
There was always a lot going on and many young motivated people. One of them was David, who is my business partner, that has always deeply impressed me. And actually from then on it was a dream, also my hobby, to make it a profession.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:16:24-00:16:26]
Then you did the brighter training in Wernheim.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:16:27-00:17:02]
That was the next big luck I had in my life that I encountered Herbert at that time. That mainly went through my ex-girlfriend Céline Friese. My girlfriend back then, she trained with Bernd. In a couple of conversations, it turned out that Bernd would actually be looking for another trainer. And then she said, hey, my boyfriend is going to start an apprenticeship. But Bernd can't train Bernd and Martina, but they get along very well with Peter Hoffman. So we found a great arrangement, so mainly at the Mannheim Riding Club.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:17:02-00:17:06]
Exactly. the president of the Mannheim Riding Club and chairman of the show jumping committee.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:17:06-00:17:40]
Exactly. So I could do my apprenticeship there. It was great for me because it was mainly about dressage. Yes, with Annika falling. And then, yeah, at Herbert's, it was the jumping part. And since then, the Herberts have truly become my second family. I owe them a lot in my life. and we still have a lot of contact to this day. So as I said, it was a lot of luck that I got that apprenticeship. So the compulsory part of the training was tough, but it got better. And as I said, I always got along great with Annika. I think she knows that I appreciate it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:17:40-00:17:52]
And I believe this was the first time your name became more familiar to a broader audience. You went to Luther Berbom and spent some time there. What kind of time was that for you?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:17:52-00:18:07]
Yes, an incredibly educational time at Herbert's. It wasn't a typical apprenticeship. And for example, I didn't have to do any stable work or anything like that. I could really focus on riding. And then with Luther, and I wouldn't want to miss it. When I started there, I really was just the home rider for Philippe Weishaupt.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:18:07-00:18:09]
You didn't even ride in a tournament?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:18:09-00:19:26]
Exactly. But only when he was at the competition. Riding at home, keeping them active, keeping them fit. And as I said, I saw a huge opportunity in it because I always generally, of course, to the whole stable, but especially for Ladja, had an enormous amount of respect. or because I really looked up to her, was a huge role model for me. And the fact that I was allowed to start there was for me, it was really a huge opportunity. Even though I was still young and really eager to compete in tournaments, I thought of having a look behind the scenes, so to speak, to see how the management is, how long they actually ride their horses. If a top horse is ridden twice a day, so when someone was injured, How was the rehab training? All those things. As I said, I was incredibly ambitious and it was an incredible opportunity to witness everything and learn a lot. And from that position as a home rider, it fortunately turned into a row where I could work with young horses or horses that were new to the stable. And then I was also allowed to ride up to two and three star CSIs. So it turned into something really great. A cool job. I'm very grateful for the educational time I had there.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:19:27-00:19:38]
How does something like that work? Then you called and said, Dear Mr. Baerbock, do you have a job? Did you send in a portfolio? Or did you meet at a tournament? where someone mentioned a job opening?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:19:38-00:21:46]
No, not at all. It worked out again with my uncle. And he mainly pushed it because I then also, after my apprenticeship, even though I had such a close connection with Herbert, I still wanted to see something else. But he wanted mainly to compete in tournaments and establish himself as a competitive rider. And my uncle said... You really have to see a really good stable with top management and experience all of it. And then you can still go down a level, so to speak, or start at a smaller operation as a tournament rider. But you have to experience that while you're still young because later you won't do it anymore. And I think he was absolutely right about that. I didn't get it at the time. Can't really categorize or assess it. But of course, he has more experience than me and he knows Philippe Weisshaupt very well. And they actually started talking. And yes, they weren't really looking for a proper trainer, but just someone like who does competitions and stuff, but just someone who rides a bit at Philippe's stable, especially when Philippe is at home continuing to train the horses for the competition. Yes, that's how it came about. I actually went there once for a trial ride. A horse was supposed to jump there. I remember that clearly. I'll never forget it. And then Lodger was standing right next to the jump. I jumped and I was so nervous, but unfortunately I saw absolutely no distance. 0.0. But I thought, I can't just turn away now thinking that I really messed up, so I just kept riding. And then at first I gained a little and thought, nah, it looks silly if you now... come out of the bike gallop over a small stall, so I imagined it in my head. In the 20-meter approach phase, I had a million different thoughts. Then I pulled back again, and in the end, there was no trace at all. The horse somehow managed to get over there. But yes, unfortunately, it didn't have a good stance. Ludger then recognized it immediately, and he said, just take a deep breath. It's not a big deal. Can you come over again? Just pretend like you're riding at home for yourself.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:21:46-00:21:55]
It's pretty wild because he was an idol for an entire generation of riders. And then when he's standing there at the jump, it's really intense.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:21:55-00:22:00]
Well, thank God. It turns out to be something after all.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:22:00-00:22:02]
Was that the most educational time for you?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:22:02-00:22:13]
I learned so many things there, of course, about riding. but also, as I said, everything around it, the management and so on. So that was probably the most educational time I've had in my life.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:22:14-00:22:32]
People know you in the saddle, but actually you're an entrepreneur. What you do together with David Will and Sophie Hindes, your girlfriend, is in the end a company that is present in Europe, now very active in America. It's also a big part. Leading companies and people, At least that's how I imagine it.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:22:32-00:23:05]
Yeah, so that I think is why after two and a half years, again, actually all the rides with Lodger are really quite long, but I've always had that time. I also like to buy and sell a horse, at least try to do it a bit, and... That also attracted me a bit to self-employment because I could push it even more. Not just to see the whole thing from a writer's perspective, but also from a business perspective.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:23:05-00:23:20]
And today, you're in this combination, almost here in Germany, but you're also traveling a lot in the United States. That's also an important market, in quotes, for you as a rider to sell horses then.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:23:20-00:23:49]
Yes, exactly. We've already been to Mexico twice now for two months each time, two and a half months. Mexico? In Mexico, we're at the Tunisian place, which we've already visited twice. Then we're in Florida, in Wellington, over the winter, mostly me. David is more often in the Emirates. He's currently also kind of the head of the keep in Saudi Arabia. And yeah, of course, with the thought of building a customer base.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:23:49-00:23:58]
But it's already pretty crazy how globalized show jumping is, right? When you think about it... One is doing the Gulf region and the other is doing North America.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:23:59-00:24:21]
You never really get the maximum out of it, but getting close to the maximum, it's really great. But purely business-wise, it's obviously not that beneficial when we're always attending tournaments. It's actually more interesting when we split up, getting in touch with more people, being present a bit everywhere, in quotation marks, exactly.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:24:21-00:24:49]
Is that also the only way? Even the previous top stars in Germany, it is indeed a generation. From many stimuli, which are now also relatively old, who continue to compete in championships and so on, Is that the only way you've taken to break into this slower market? I mean, for a long time, Ludger Birbaum, if you look at his generation, Christian Allmann, Markus Ening, they have been dominating championships for Germany for decades.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:24:49-00:24:50]
Yes, yes, absolutely.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:24:50-00:25:02]
There have always been riders who managed that as well. But from my perspective, at least, you seem like the first one who did it with your own hands.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:25:02-00:25:10]
Yes, hands-on work, that's true, for example. Sorry to contradict you, but that's not right. You might mean that we're independent, but there's a huge team behind this.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:25:10-00:25:13]
You're not a skull rider, meaning you don't ride post-holic stuff?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:25:13-00:25:23]
No, exactly, I'm not employed. But nevertheless, it's obviously a huge team. What, without each and every person on the team...

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:25:24-00:26:18]
this would not be possible at all so without so with one's own hands is relative but yes maybe not in an employment relationship due to the fact that you at least once in this generation for the younger generation of show jumpers you are currently considered the best german rider by many They are role models for people entering the sport, for those who are generally involved with horses. Besides your work in the saddle, there are many other topics, equestrian sports also. Not exactly, not under pressure at the moment, considering the headlines around FM. Many other things, social license, will we even be allowed to compete with horses in 20 years? What's your general take on this topic? Do you engage with such matters or do you focus exclusively on sports?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:26:18-00:27:51]
of course the main focus is on our work and sports in the daily work with the horses the biggest workload but yes i think that everyone should really give some thought to how our sport will look in 20 years it's easy to get lost in what's next yeah i can't change it as an individual But if everyone thinks that way, then overall, nothing changes. I don't want to sit here and say I have the perfect solution for everything. But I think we can never think too much about it. Absolutely. How are you trying to do justice to this role? So I think you have to try not to fool people, but at some point you have to say, this is the limit. For example, spurs and a riding crop are permissible tools, and this should still be the case in a year. Are there people who misuse a whip, a crop, or spurs? Probably yes, but at least in tournaments we again have judges, stewards, and so on, and I believe we are on a very good path. that everything is regulated, but we need to be careful that we shouldn't keep tightening the rules more and more. And at some point, we're digging our own grave a little. Making it harder and harder for the stewards. What is allowed, what is not allowed. So if you compete nationally, here we have an American student. We can no longer excite them to go to a national tournament.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:27:51-00:27:53]
Because it's so complicated.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:27:53-00:30:37]
Exactly. Someone who didn't grow up with it. Don't you understand all of this? Having really simple things, for example, that you don't use the fly mask as a bridle. I can secure it with a rubber band or something because it sometimes flops over and gets blown up, flutters a bit. Exactly. And yeah, you could say it's bearable for a horse, but I don't see any disadvantage, any harm if you fix it with a rubber band. But if, for example, it's not allowed nationally, then I have to explain this. Because the judge is just doing their job and says, do me a favor, please stop, it's not allowed. Then I have to explain to her that it's not allowed. And then she says, but what's so bad about it now? I just want to help my horse. If it flounders around, that's not okay. He starts shaking his head or feels uncomfortable or whatever, distract him. I say, yeah, it is what it is. So I think there are many rules and things. Nowadays, some topics are a bit trivial. And there I think we have to, we need to be careful not to make everything too complicated and harder than it already is. And even when people who aren't from our sport, those who actually understand very little about equestrian sports, or in this case specifically show jumping, When they come and want to impose rules on us or clarify, this is good for the horse, this is not good for the horse. Always shouting yes and um at us a little bit. If you want to picture it, being backed against the wall a little. And they always portray us as the villains and we just react to it. Yeah, okay. We prohibit that because they'll come in half a year and say it's bad for the horse and then ban it too. As I said, I think that must also then to explain to such people that most of the things we do with our horses first... have a long history and second there is usually a reason why we do most of the things we do and the reason really isn't that we want to harm the horse or that the horse feels uneasy and riding and jumping whatever should feel but most things can be very well justified is Perhaps only as an outsider, if you have no idea about it, maybe at first actually a bit suspicious, but I think we almost have to do more in two ways. Engage with them and also enlighten them a bit about why things are done the way they are. Many don't want to understand it at all, but I also think that there are many who do. With whom you can be a bit, get something else done. Bring the sport a bit closer so they get a better understanding.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:30:39-00:30:59]
Do you see a danger that the top-level sport of the so-called regular sport, you know, mainstream sports, what makes equestrian tournaments in the end, is also a bit of your story? From small tournaments to the top, all the way to the top, that things keep getting more detached because of the development you just described?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:30:59-00:33:14]
Yes, I see a big danger. A big factor, I think, is also the financial aspect. Our sport is and it probably has always been an expensive sport. But at the moment, the trend is, I believe, very extreme that it really keeps getting more expensive or more exclusive or more financially demanding. And I think that's already a trend that has to be enjoyed with caution. And for the overall sport, I believe, is not a good development anymore. Yes, as I said, that's from quite normal circumstances. If I have to today again, if I were 10, 11 or 12 years old, it would be much harder for my father to make it all possible for me. That wasn't so long ago, just 15 years or from 17 years ago. And that, I believe, already blocks the way for many people. And it doesn't have to be top-level sports. But it already blocks the way for many just to be national. Finally, S-jumping or simply getting in. They are then in a school environment, which also probably over the years necessarily cheaper. The companies themselves can really be blamed. They also have to adjust exactly to all other price developments. But beyond that... Many probably don't really get much further. So the step, I think, from that you ride in a school operation, then someday you get your first own horse, then you need a trailer, then you need a saddle during separation. You have to check that. In which stable can I keep my horse? Is it just the boarding price for the box? Then I need a blacksmith. Hopefully not too often, but definitely for vaccinations and maybe little things here and there at the vet. So yeah, it is unfortunately quite an exclusive sport, but I think that you have to be careful that this transition doesn't become even more difficult. Because those are also the people who understand our sport, if only the people who are top-level motorsports, riding, understanding the sport at all.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:33:14-00:33:17]
That was probably the beginning of the end.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:33:17-00:34:60]
Exactly. Then there are also far too few voices that are... for the sport that understand the sport that love the sport and and know how well our horses are doing actually really goes across the board and how much is being worried about it and all the effort that goes into it yeah Well, you only know that when you're in the sport, but also when you're quote-unquote only AL, M-jumping, E-jumping, show jumper, no matter what they ride. You can get a glimpse and understand the effort behind it, how much care the horses actually receive, which you often don't see in public or the general population doesn't notice at all. they then catch a few bad headlines. Yes, that's the image they have of the show jumper. But when everyone from the general population who have nothing to do with horses has an acquaintance, two acquaintances, who ride and those who can shed a little light on this or at least be able to go and ask what is with the headliner, what's behind it, and then being able to talk to someone who has... a little bit more input and a bit more know-how, then I believe you can take a lot of the wind out of the sails. But when more and more people drop out who also participate in local tournaments, even, so to speak, at a lower level, because it also becomes too expensive. Not at all because they don't want it, because they don't think it's a nice sport, because they don't want to do it as a hobby, but because they simply can't afford it. Then we also have gradually fewer, ever fewer advocates of our sport.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:35:01-00:35:11]
At the end of each podcast here with us, here with Richie, we have the four classic questions that every podcast guest here can expect. And question number one is, do you have a motto you live by?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:35:12-00:36:12]
Not really, no, no, sorry. Yes, so I think that many people, I can't say exactly, but there's definitely also a few more skillful words to sum that up. But many people miss opportunities because they are afraid to fail. And I am someone who better to take a chance, whether on the course or in life. And... I try not to worry too much about what if it goes wrong. Instead, I just naturally with thought and a good plan behind it, try to achieve something. And if you fail, then quickly get back up, shake it off. So I think many people, maybe in life in general, but also in writing too, are really too afraid of falling off and then they don't even try many things.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:36:13-00:36:17]
Question number two. Is there a person who has particularly influenced you with regard to horses?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:36:17-00:36:23]
That has definitely been my uncle ever since my early childhood. And then, of course, the Herbert family.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:36:24-00:36:30]
If you could give riders one piece of advice for handling their horses, what would it be?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:36:30-00:37:11]
Being a good psychologist, always put yourself a little in the horse's shoes. I can understand that just like us humans, a horse can also have a bad day. As I said, if something goes wrong, analyze why. A horse is really a mysterious, good-natured creature. They fundamentally want to do everything right when somehow goes wrong or completely in the wrong direction. If we're all being honest, it usually has to do with us or... Is there some reason that we either caused or overlooked or could have done better?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:37:13-00:37:19]
First look at yourself and then complete this sentence. Horses are for me.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:37:19-00:37:20]
My dear...

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:37:22-00:37:32]
Wonderful. Dear Richie, thank you for your time. I'm glad we managed to do the podcast. And if we meet again at the end of 2024... What was the biggest success then?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:37:32-00:37:35]
Yes, ideally, hopefully, Paris.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:37:36-00:37:37]
We're keeping our fingers crossed.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:37:37-00:37:38]
Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:37:38-00:37:39]
Good luck.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:37:39-00:37:40]
Bye. Same to you. Bye-bye.

[SPEAKER 3]
[00:37:42-00:38:15]
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Equestrian Connection podcast by WeHorse. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a rating and review as well as share us on social media. You can find us on Instagram at WeHorse underscore USA and check out our free seven day trial on WeHorse.com where you can access over 175 courses with top trainers from around the world in a variety of topics and disciplines. Until next time, be kind to yourself, your horses and others.

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