#10 Neil Jones: How to find the perfect match between horse and rider?

This transcript was created by AI and has not been proofread

[SPEAKER 2]Hi everyone, this is the Equestrian Connection from wehorse, the online riding academy. My name is Christian Krober and in today’s episode, I am talking to Neil Jones. Neil is one of the leading experts in finding the perfect match between horse and rider. Coming from Europe, he is now based out in Wellington, close to the epicenter of the sport in Florida, and we are talking about how to find actually a horse that not only fits to your riding skills, but also is a great partner. Before we start, we have recently published another batch of wonderful great courses on WeHorse, our e-learning platform, and one of them is from the great Anja Beran from Germany. She is one of the leading experts in classical dressage and she actively reshapes the image we should have in our minds in terms of a young horse’s outline and the way of going. The course classical dressage training the young warm blood is now available for members on wehorse.com. And I would say, let’s go with the interview with Neil Jones. Welcome to the show, Neil Jones. Hi, Neil.

[SPEAKER 1]Hi, how are you?

[SPEAKER 2]I am very well.

[SPEAKER 1]How are you? I couldn’t be better.

[SPEAKER 2]Wonderful. You are at the moment in Wellington, Florida. You are specialized actually in bringing horses and riders together and you import world-class horses into the country. You run a training facility in Wellington and you are specialized actually in finding the perfect match between horse and rider. What’s the perfect match? Is there even a perfect match?

[SPEAKER 1]Okay, that’s a really good question. I mean, the perfect match is always depending on, in my opinion, depends on the rider. Because if we’re talking about an amateur rider, you know, the perfect match is something totally different than somebody who is already a professional. You know, if we find a good six or seven years old for a good professional and he produces it to be a Grand Prix horse, then we’ve done our job and then they had a perfect match. Whereas if we have an amateur person who’s jumping 110, 120 and has aspirations to jump more, you know, then the horse has to have a little bit more ability and a little bit more rideability. And especially I find that the horses in the in the USA that the people they’re looking for the horses they need to have a lot of rideability.

[SPEAKER 2]So rideability is key but what are characteristics I would need to look for if I’m let’s say I’m an amateur rider or maybe we can also look at both dimensions what are traits I need to look out for?

[SPEAKER 1]Well, you know, typically in the amateur horse, we, you know, uh, in principle, the jump in the rings of the same, you know, we have different, you know, they have different classes here as opposed to Europe, you know, where you have a one meter, one 10, one 2130, et cetera, where you have specifically amateur classes. Um, and you know, there are several different things, you know, the ride ability is, is, is key, but we, we also need, uh, a special, you know, the horse needs to be really, really easy going in the collecting ring because in America it’s a different setup. Basically you have your own jump, there’s four fences to warm up and they’re close together and everybody keeps one fence. So it’s not like Europe where maybe one or two people are sharing the same jump or even more. So we need to make sure that these horses, for the amateur people, are quiet, they don’t get spooked, because sometimes when you start jumping all together like that, some of these horses start to get horse-shy, especially when you’re going in two different directions.

[SPEAKER 2]You mentioned that the equation is a little different for the professional rider. What’s different there if you look at how horse and rider can work together as a team? How do those differ, the amateur and the professional?

[SPEAKER 1]I think in my view, the amateur in America, you know, they have a full time job, not with horses, and they want to come usually on a Thursday. The professionals already ridden their horse, maybe in the ring in another class. And then when they get here, the horse has to be ready. You know, they don’t have time to sit on and school the horse and et cetera, et cetera. They want to walk the course with the trainer and then they want to get on the horse and they want to join the class. It needs to be the market needs to be geared up that the horses need to be absolutely ready and the client gets on and has the most fun they can have for three days of jumping because they don’t have time. They come specifically for their classes, whereas a professional is there from Tuesday at the beginning of the week of the show.

[SPEAKER 2]You are a horse dealer by heart. You actually, before we started here the podcast, we have been already chatting a little. You told me that you started when you were 15, right?

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, I left school around about 14 or 15 years old and I rode and I rode with Michael Whitaker. I groomed horses and I was luckily enough. I had some stables at the back of the pub that we had, you know, in England, we have these public houses and my parents said, OK, if you’re not going to go to school, you need to do something. So I started to buy some horses, ride a little bit and then resell them. And that’s how I started.

[SPEAKER 2]And there was never any other option? You were always full throttle on all stealing?

[SPEAKER 1]No, for a small while, I thought I could actually make it in the ring riding horses and making money by show jumping and being a professional rider. But that came to an abrupt end when I was working for Michael Whitaker and I just asked him one day, I said, listen, you think I have what it takes? And he said, no, he said, you better do something else. You don’t have the talent. So actually, I have to thank Michael for that, probably because it was probably the best advice I ever got.

[SPEAKER 2]So you never tried it yourself on the saddle?

[SPEAKER 1]Really?

[SPEAKER 2]On the higher level?

[SPEAKER 1]No, at a higher level. No, I mean, I did used to when I went out to try and horses, you know, I did try horses myself sometimes, but honestly, I still do to this day. I buy a lot of horses off the ground and don’t even sit on them myself. But, uh, you know, I, I think that, uh, I enjoy actually recently, I started to ride out again and do some exercise work just to, just to, you know, just to take myself away from doing whatever else I was doing.

[SPEAKER 2]And back in the days when you were in Britain, you basically took the truck, went to continental Europe and when you’ve been on the way back to Britain, you already called up some potential clients?

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, I mean, you know, years ago, I used to drive the truck over there myself and I used to buy four or five horses, not too expensive. I’d drive around Belgium, Holland, Germany, and then we’d get the paperwork done and then I’d drive back. And in those days, the phone didn’t work in outside of Britain. You know, as soon as I got back, my cell phone worked. And as soon as I landed, I would phone people I knew were looking for horses. And I had an advertisement running the whole time in magazines. And then people would call me and they say, we’re looking for a four-year-old. And then I did actually a lot of dressage horses because there was not many people importing dressage horses. So I buy a lot of three-year-olds, four-year-olds that moved well. And just because they moved well, they were easy to sell.

[SPEAKER 2]today an ambitious rider, would I always need to look into an imported horse or is that actually just something that is a nice thing but not really required or only on a certain level? What’s your take on that?

[SPEAKER 1]No, I don’t I don’t think that’s totally necessary. I mean, the problem is, you know, here in the States that the breeding is there are some people, but it’s few and far between. And they’re still, you know, getting up and going. I do believe that you can still buy some horses, depending on what you want that are not imported. But I would say. You’re going to have to find a horse that has been imported, usually if you want to progress a little bit here.

[SPEAKER 2]You mentioned the breed, is it actually important whether it’s a Hanoverian, Hallsteiner, Dutch horse, Belgian horse, Celle Francaise?

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, I’m a little bit biased, but you know, I think that I don’t like to say that it needs to be a sort of German or a French horse or whatever or a breed. I think that if the horse has, you know, you know, we see now so many times, I have several horses myself with a French father and a Belgian mother or French father and a German mother and vice versa. So I think if you, you know, breeding is important, it’s super important, but it doesn’t put me off going to see a horse that’s not well bred.

[SPEAKER 2]In the beginning of our podcast, we already talked about what’s the secret sauce and the relationship between horse and rider. and you said the most important part is actually the rider and then in combination with the horse. In the sport we have seen and still today have so many phenomenal combinations, what is actually the secret of really a phenomenal combination between horse and rider?

[SPEAKER 1]I think that, you know, I mean, over the years I’ve had some, some amazing riders, you know, Lorenzo De Luca, Carl Cox. I mean, the list, you know, goes on. I’ve had maybe 12 or 15 different riders. And it’s funny because I have a new rider at the moment, one Carlos Garcia, who rides for Italy and he’s ridden the Olympics for eventing and for show jumping. And today, for the first time I put him on a horse that he hasn’t ridden because we’ve been at shows and I said to him before he got on I said you’re gonna like this horse and afterwards he said oh my god it’s my favorite horse I just think that you know once you know the rider and you know what they like it’s easier you know and that’s a little bit of thing that I’ve always tried to Some people like horses that they need to put a lot of pressure on. Some people like horses that have a lot of blood. So I think you have to, when you’re selling people the horse, you have to take that into consideration, watching videos of the people. I very often ask when people say, oh, we’re coming to look at the horse, I ask them to send me a video. And that’s just basically to get an idea of how they ride because Unless they’re professionals, then you’re not going to change the style of their riding. They ride how they ride. If they’re a professional, they can adjust with their ability. They can adjust to ride something. Because if it’s a good horse, they will adjust their ride ability. But an amateur, and we’re selling mainly to amateurs, the horse needs to suit them.

[SPEAKER 2]And the amateur rider, how many horses on average in your experience do they need to try? I mean, there are some people that try 15 horses and don’t find one, others the first one is a match.

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, I mean, we actually had somebody here, this week and they posted on Instagram. I saw it there. So they were here on Tuesday and they said the daughter tried 18 horses in one day. And then their idea was to cut that down to not my horses, but I let them try one of mine and they tried 18 horses. And then their idea was the next day to cut it down to three or four and just try. But actually, the child was so tired the next day. She sort of had to have half a day off because, you know, they’ve done so much. So I don’t think that I think what you have to do, you have to work with your trainer and the person who’s selling the horse. I prefer if the clients already had the vet check or at least the x-rays of the horse that we’re not wasting anybody’s time, not ours or the clients. And I think that if you can scale it down to five, four or five horses a day, six maybe, if you go into a small area, I think the trouble is people try so many and in the end they get confused. I think if you do your homework before you go to try the horses and you research the videos and you research the results and and all the rest of it i mean i think that if you um you know the trainers need to do their jobs a lot of the time that’s a bit of a problem you know if you’re dealing with mclean ward it’s easy because he’s going to say okay yeah but you know some of these trainers uh you know, basically it’s very professional trainer. You just say you’re a professional trainer. It’s not like, uh, I think in Europe, there are a little bit more people when they say they’re professional, they really are professional sometimes here. It’s a little bit, uh, it’s a little bit varied from which area and which person, but I do, I, I personally, if I’m going to look horses myself, It’s different. If I’m going to look at young horses, I can be finished in 10 minutes. If I don’t like the horse, I’m out. Maybe I made a mistake, but I think when amateurs come, I think they should look four or five horses. It’s enough.

[SPEAKER 2]How important is it to convince my trainer that it is the right horse?

[SPEAKER 1]I think the trainers need to do their due diligence. That’s a huge thing over here, you know, that the people, you know, trust in their trainers and the trainers get commissioned usually when they purchase a horse. So I think, you know, I obviously have a conversation usually before the trainers come and I tell them what I think about the horse and, you know, what the good part of the horse is. And, you know, if there’s anything that’s not good, I’m going to declare that and say, look, this is the only problem is it’s,

[SPEAKER 2]x y z or z but i think that you need to build up a relationship with those trainers and once you have that relationship what i found is it’s very easy to sell the horses once you’ve already sold good horses to the people especially amateur riders if they are not located in in or around the equestrian hubs like florida or maybe around new york or in california

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, we had people here from Las Vegas last week. You know, Las Vegas is an area that there are not too many horse facilities, so they have to go to California or Europe or Wellington to try horses.

[SPEAKER 2]But even, I mean, we’re now talking at the end of 2021, people are checking out horses on their cell phone, they get over Instagram stories, I see so many horses also being for sale. and there are horses being sold without having tried them. How do you view this development that not necessarily everyone is still doing their due diligence and actually looking at the horse, looking at the horse rider combination and really making the travel to the facility where the horse is at and trying it out, which is normally obvious, but it doesn’t happen always. How do you view this?

[SPEAKER 1]I think since COVID came in, I think we’ve seen the, uh, the surgeons of, uh, of, of auctions. You know what I mean? I did, I started an auction together with, uh, Hendrix’s, uh, many years ago and then at that time there was maybe one or two auctions. Now, every time I look, there’s an online auction somewhere, or, and I think this is because a lot of people are buying off videos or off, uh, of the internet, of social media, of Instagram. And I think that nowadays that you have so much digital technology, we can send the x-rays to the vetting and anywhere you want in the world. away. You can also do a clinical exam and film it live. So some people feel a little bit more comfortable than they did maybe 15 years ago where you have to use a bed in Europe that you’ve never heard of before and he says it’s good. So I think things have gone from one extreme to the other a little bit. I personally think that for an amateur, they need to sit on the horse. For a professional, I think some of these people, they see what they’re like, and if they’re willing to put the money down, then they’ll do it. I have clients who have bought off Instagram. I think it’s a roll of the dice. It might work and it might not.

[SPEAKER 2]So eventually it boils down to, as you said, a roll of dice.

[SPEAKER 1]I think it’s a roll of dice. you can drop lucky and have the best horse you’ve ever had, or maybe it’s going to be a nightmare. I think that it’s just the way of the world right now. It’s the times people don’t want to travel, let’s say, to Europe, so they go online. I’ve met several people recently that bought horses online at online auctions in Europe. They’ve never seen the horse till it gets here. And some of them have been super happy, but I don’t know. I mean, I’m not sure that’s going to be 100% a positive thing in the future. But right now, people seem to want to spend money. I mean, we’ve seen this. You’ve obviously seen it closer than I, but these auctions are making record amounts of money. Yes.

[SPEAKER 2]In Europe, there are auctions that really had record-breaking revenues. And I think the development is still not over. The sport is globalizing. I mean, in Wellington, you feel it firsthand how globalized the sport is these days. And I think you’re completely right. It is eventually something where you need to have a good due diligence. if you really want to have this special combination or horse that that really fits well, unlike just another horse in the stable?

[SPEAKER 1]Well, yeah, and I mean, like you mentioned it yourself, you know, I mean, the due diligence is one thing, but the now the technology mean we can, you know, if somebody tells me about a horse in Europe, we can go clip my horse, we can watch several videos of it, we can go to, to another company and look out the results. We can check the FEI results. There are so many more tools than originally when we first started doing business. When we sent a video cassette to America, it took three days to get there. You know what I mean? We’re so far advanced with the technology that even the vets can do a vet check and they can have a Zoom about the horse and talk about it like they’re in the same room. So you’ve taken a lot of the risks out that were there for the sake of technology. It’s got better. I think that, you know, if a vet is vetting a horse in Europe and he wants to call the vet in America and they can both look at it together, you know, via Zoom or FaceTime even, they can do that and they can stop the vet check or they can let it go further or whatever. I think that the due diligence has become easier because you can follow the results of the horse, you can see all the medical records, there’s so many different attributes to it now.

[SPEAKER 2]Neil, at the end of every WeHorse podcast, we have the four ultimate WeHorse questions and I hope you are ready Here’s question number one. Do you have a motto?

[SPEAKER 1]The harder you work, the luckier you become.

[SPEAKER 2]Cool. Question number two. Who has been the most influential person in your equestrian life?

[SPEAKER 1]I would probably say my mother because that’s where it all started and she gave me a good basics, you know, we weren’t allowed to have horses until we could do everything ourselves. So we had to go out in the morning, we had to feed them, we had to clean the stalls before we went to school. So, you know, I think that she was probably most influential.

[SPEAKER 2]And she was really an enabler for you to get into the scene.

[SPEAKER 1]She had a love of horses and that’s how we got into it. I think because she liked it more than we did when we were very small, but eventually it grew on me and my brother became a really good farrier and he’s still a good farrier. So we both ended up in the horse world, although my brother was in the King’s Troop Royal Horse Artillery for many years, which was still equestrian orientated. But I think that, you know,

[SPEAKER 2]we could have gone anyway but we ended up both in horses because of my mom’s passion for it i guess question number three if you could give equestrians one piece of advice what is it i think that uh

[SPEAKER 1]You know, of course, everybody needs talent to succeed. But, you know, work and work ethic as somebody who employs people, you know, I really think that if you have a good work ethic, some of the riders I’ve had, I would say nearly all of them have a really good work ethic. You know, some, you know, the harder they work, the more you are going to give them as an employee. So the more you try to, uh, you know, benefit their career or get them better horses or whatever, because they put so much time and energy in themselves. So I think that, that I would say that, you know, if you show the people that you are working with or working together with, or for that you are a hundred percent on board, that’s going to take you a long way.

[SPEAKER 2]and then complete this sentence. For me, horses are everything. Wonderful. Neil, it has been a pleasure having you on the show.

[SPEAKER 1]Thank you.

[SPEAKER 2]Inspirational podcast for all of you that are listening that are at the moment looking for horses. Yeah, and enjoy your stay in Wellington and enjoy Florida.

[SPEAKER 1]And it’s been great talking to you.

[SPEAKER 2]Thank you, Neil.

[SPEAKER 1]Thank you.

[SPEAKER 2]Thanks for listening to the Equestrian Connection podcast. To find more information, follow us on Instagram or visit wehorse.com, our e-learning platform with plenty of courses for all equestrians with brilliant experts from all around the horse world. Make sure you subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts. If you are an Android user, check us out on Spotify or frankly, wherever you listen to podcasts. If you like our show, please leave a review on Apple and now also on Spotify. And yeah, see you soon. Thanks for listening from wehorse, the Online Riding Academy. And tune in next time for the Equestrian Connection.