#54 Understanding Bodywork Modalities with Miah O’Cain

[SPEAKER 2]
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On this episode, we're talking with Miah O'Cain, a certified equine sports massage therapist and owner of Highland 3-5 Equine Services.

[SPEAKER 1]
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The differences in Red Light and Bemer, Red Light is going to take a bit more of an anti-inflammatory response, whereas Bemer is taking more of like a circulation, relaxation, recovery approach.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from WeHorse. My name is Danielle Crowell and I'm your host. Miah O'Cain is an equine sports massage therapist and the owner of Highland 3-5 Equine Services. She has a vast knowledge of additional supportive techniques and modalities, many of which we'll discuss today, which includes red light therapies, tuning forks, beamer, and cryotherapy. Her ultimate goal is to find the root cause of pain and dysfunction and then fix the problem at the core, not mask it. She does this by bringing body, mind, and soul back into alignment. We'll be discussing the different bodywork modalities and technology, how to know what is best for your horse, and so much more. If you're ready to get started, let's dive in. Miah, welcome to the WeHorse podcast. I'm super excited to talk about bodywork modalities today.

[SPEAKER 1]
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I am so excited to be here. I'm I'm just super pumped.

[SPEAKER 2]
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So what brought you to horses and what were your first few years like as an equestrian?

[SPEAKER 1]
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So I was one of the lucky ones to have been born and raised into it. My mom was big into horses when she was younger and then life took her a different path. And then she got back into horses in her 30s, I believe. And then I was born a couple of years later and I pretty much grew up on the back of a horse. I. That's. That's just where I spend all of my time. I was horse crazy. I loved them. I dabbled in everything, a little bit of everything. And I got my start really in riding, I'll say with a purpose, in 4-H. So I don't know if they have 4-H in Canada.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah, yeah. Big 4-H communities here, too.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah, so I grew up in 4-H riding. I did a little bit of everything, the halter, the English, and then whenever I was like 12, I started into barrel racing, and that kind of stole my heart, and that's kind of... my primary discipline. Since then, I have a true heart and admiration for jumpers. Same thing with people who do dressage. I think it's beautiful. I love it. I aspire to be able to ride in those disciplines, but I've taken a couple of lessons with a friend of mine who is a very, very established jumper. And every time, whenever I'm done riding with her, I'm like, okay, I have more respect for you now than I did the day before. So you kicked my tail.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah. I love that. I love that. Like, I feel as though specifically growing up, and maybe things are shifting a little bit, but I just remember, like, growing up around the horses and the horse world, and it always just kind of felt like there was a divide between disciplines, and I'm sure there still is. I just find, like, maybe we're getting a little bit more, like, we're willing to explore other things. Because it was always like, oh, you ride dressage, pfft. Like, oh, I ride like hunter jumper or it's like, oh, you ride Western. I ride English. Like it was always just such a divide between people. And I love that, you know, the opportunity to try out the different disciplines and then you and then you kind of get a different point of view. And whether you take lessons from what you worked on in that discipline and you bring it into your discipline, because I mean, what discipline can't benefit from dressage? Right. So it's like there's there's so many crossovers. And also like just what even if you don't bring it into your discipline, it's just it brings a different level of respect to be like, I see you. I see what you're doing. I'm I'm personally choosing not to do it, but I respect that you are doing it. So I love that.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah, so growing up, I was pretty much self-taught or YouTube-taught, I'll say. Pretty much everything that I did or learned, I just kind of spectated and watched what other people did and then YouTubed and stuff. And then I think I had my first formal lesson, I'll say, probably in my early 20s. And you could definitely tell that I was a self-taught writer and it took its toll on, I'll say, my self-confidence, which I feel like there is a negative connotation of like. The keyboard warriors like dissing you for your writing abilities and that really started eating away at me like, OK, well, I'm a I'm a quote backyard writer. Like I didn't have all the fancy training like that made me super nervous and self-conscious.

[SPEAKER 2]
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And I feel like as I have grown, I feel like I want to. go back and hug little me and say it's okay because you're trying and that's that means so much more than the people who are trying to diss you because they don't know your story they don't know your past like they don't they don't know so like there's just like you were saying with the crossover and the disciplines like I feel like every everybody is trying like those who are getting on the horse and riding even if they're not doing it perfectly with exact form and position they're still getting on their horse they're still giving them exercise like that's still a win for both the horse and rider I have this it's like a meme it's like a cartoon thing that I had screenshot years ago and it's still on my phone like in my photo album and it's um it's like two stick figures and one person's going um those are the wrong boots um you're not you know oh you're on the wrong diagonal um like and they're saying all these different things and the other person's like leaning over and like pinching their lips and being like just let people have fun exactly exactly that could not be more true Okay, so you had, you know, been around horses all your life, did a little bit of everything. How did you get started with body work? Where did that come in?

[SPEAKER 1]
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I had originally said when I was in high school that I did not want to do anything thought I didn't want to do anything career wise with horses. Like that was like, Oh, I love horses too much. Like I, I don't want to ruin it for myself by making it my career. And in the back of my head, I was like, okay, but I love horses. Like they are my entire life. And that always stuck with me. So when I was nine, um, We had a body worker come out for one of my mom's mares that had a stifle injury. And I was completely mesmerized by it. I thought that it was so cool. The horse's name was Madonna. I thought that like Madonna's reactions were so interesting and like how much it helped her. And I just thought it was really cool. And then nothing really changed. happened with it. Like I just kind of forgotten about it. And then my mayor now, she's the mayor that I wrote in 4-H. I did speed events with her and all the things. She's old and retired now, ridden with arthritis, but she is like the sun, moon, and stars. And because all of her ailments, I just wanted to try to figure out how to help her, what was best for her. And a friend of mine was like, hey, there's this Facebook group, and it's all about biomechanics and massage and chiropractic. And she's like, it would be a great... educational piece, not to go and do anything, but in terms of learning like movement and people posting videos of their horses walking and identifying lameness and that type of stuff. She's like, you should just look at it to see like what they're saying about other horses and kind of how that would apply to Dakota, my mare. And so I fell in love with scrolling through the Facebook page. Like it was just so intriguing to me. And I saw somebody talking about a body work course and I was like, okay, I forgot about body work. I kind of remember that. And at the time my husband was stationed in California. And so we were living in California and we didn't have plans of coming back here to Florida anytime soon. But I was like, I wonder if I could make, if I could like establish myself in California with a body work business, maybe, I don't know. And, And just kind of sat on it, thought on it, and did a ton of research on schools. And like six months later, I was enrolled in a bodywork program and fell in love with everything about it. And then through my research of bodyworkers, I stumbled across Jen Savage with Savage Equine Services. And I... admired what she was posting it was so real it was so authentic it was so much like truth and honesty that was kind of convicting but like you wanted to learn more because you're like well okay I need to be better for my horse. Like I need to be better. And so watching her post stuff and seeing what she had to say all while I was going through my schooling, it was like, okay, I love this. I am so gung ho. This is the direction I'm meant to be in. Like I am, this is, this is fantastic. And that's kind of like long winded version of how I ended up here.

[SPEAKER 2]
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I love it. Yeah. for those listening um you may remember Jen's podcast episode I feel like it was like oh gosh time like time is a construct um like I can't even think of like when that was it was recently a couple weeks ago it was probably a couple podcasts ago um if you haven't listened already go back and listen to Jen's episode um and she's actually who got me in touch here with Maya um I got a voice note from Jen and she was like, you have to meet this girl. So lo and behold, here we are with Maya. So I love that it's like the invisible strings where it's like you saw Jen's stuff and you really like Jen and then you connected with Jen and I connected with Jen and then Jen connected us and very cool.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Love it. The world is so big, yet so small.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Absolutely. Absolutely. So I'd love to go through a few bodywork techniques. Some people may be familiar with them and want a little bit more in-depth information. And some people may not be familiar with them at all. So we're going to go through it. The first one is red light therapy. What is it and how does it work?

[SPEAKER 1]
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OK, so red light therapy in super like basic layman's terms is it is red light or low level layer laser therapy, which exposes the skin to low red or near infrared light levels. So what it does is this light penetrates the skin. And it absorbs into the cells and it triggers like a chemical and biological reaction. So that happens through it can promote collagen. It reduces inflammation. It can help with skin conditions like dermatitis or scratches. I've been seeing a lot of talking up about scratches and that's kind of red light is killer for it. But it's also good for like removing inflammation, muscle recovery, joint pain. It, it is like the security blanket of body work. Like pretty much everybody is going to have red light. And if they don't have red light, they know somebody who does because it is, so widely versatile and, um, super beneficial. Um, yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
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So I've seen some people that have, um, like it's like an installation in their burn and it's like these overhead, it's like an across high areas, like these overhead red lights, I'm assuming that's it. Um, and it almost seems like they either turn it on pre-ride or they turn it on post-ride, you know, like muscle recovery, like you had mentioned. Um, what about some like, um, Oh, what's the word? Travelable. What's that word I'm thinking of? When it's like you can, you don't have to have it installed in your barn. You can like bring it with you wherever you go or have a kit somewhere and then like pull it out when your horse needs it.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yes. So I don't have the like large kits that are basically like They're basically like lit stalls.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Which I don't have one of those. But those are amazing because it's like a one stop shop. You can kind of hit everything with it. But what you're talking about right now is so they have light pads and then they have handhelds or wands. Some of them call them or or some of them just call them lasers. So with the light pads, I have a couple of different light pads. I got mine from According to Gospel, which they are the best. I love them. There are so many good brands out there like RevitaBet. But according to gospel has my heart. So they have light pads. And then I also have a handheld from shoot. And that one is really great. They also have like a green light and a blue light for other like tropical skin conditions and whatnot. So those are really helpful too. But yes, the light pads are really useful, especially when you're mobile because you have like a battery pack that they run off of. So you don't always have to have electricity, which is great. really beneficial when you're going to farms that maybe don't have electricity because we love the little guys. We love those who, who are, are doing their best. And, and I think that, um, they hold a special place in my heart.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah. Awesome. Um, are there any specific protocols or like best practices, um, regarding red light therapy?

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yes and no. So depending on if you are treating a specific symptom or a specific problem, that will kind of distinguish the direction that you go. So for wound healing, of course, it's best to go like hard and fast and super aggressive with it. I actually just had a client who, Last week, her horse and her dog got in a bit of disagreement and the dog sliced the mare's nose right open. Like it probably was three inches long, ended up being laid open like an inch wide. Oh, my gosh. And she called me up and she's like, OK, I got a problem. Yeah. And and so we went super aggressive with the red light and tuning forks, which we'll talk about here in a few. And I think her total recovery was like six days from being gaped open to pretty much closed.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Wow. That's crazy. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]
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It helps to be super prompt and aggressive on the front end. For those who have chronic issues, I have another client who I'm pretty sure... I would say she probably sat back in the barn with a halter on and probably did some damage to her pole. Because of that, her TMJ is off. She's had all the chiropractic. She's a regular with massage. But with doing the red light, it helps relieve that tension and inflammation in her jaw and TMJ. You can just watch her melt away. When like 30 seconds in, she'll start to like get a little droopy eyed and she'll just relax. And you can tell she's like, yes, I need this. I need this help.

[SPEAKER 2]
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I love that. I love when you see that and when like they let their guard down.

[SPEAKER 1]
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I love that. Yes. And it's confirmation that you are headed in the right direction for them.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I know that we're going to talk about tuning forks, but I want to put a pin in that and I want to jump ahead to Beamer therapy because I, as we're talking about this, I'm like, OK, well, what's the difference? Like, what's the difference between red light and Beamer? So can we talk about that? What is Beamer therapy? What's the difference between red light and and using like a Beamer blanket?

[SPEAKER 1]
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all right so beamer is essentially i'm sure a lot of the listeners and probably you have heard of magna wave um is pemf and um so beamer is the same in the sense that it is also pemf um But it takes a different approach to MagnaWave. So MagnaWave is a bit more, I'll say, aggressive in its approach to muscle joint tissue. whereas Beamer takes that super mellow light approach. And so it uses super light pulse electromagnetic fields and frequencies to penetrate through the skin into the muscle, and it improves blood circulation and helps the body with its natural regenerative process. Okay. So what's great about the Beamer is, like I said before, it is super soft. It's super mellow. So when you put the blanket on and you start it up, you don't feel anything. The horse doesn't really feel anything, so they don't really have anything to worry about in the sense of, okay, I can feel my muscle jumping. Oh, why is my muscle jumping? Why am I feeling this? I don't understand why. Okay. Whereas with the beamer, it's like, oh, I'm starting to feel a little relaxed here. Oh, oh, that's nice. And before you know it, they'll be asleep in the cross ties. I have several that will full on like lip, bottom lip drooped drool pouring out of their mouth. Like it's that aggressive sometimes. Yeah. So it's super great how it's non-invasive and the horse doesn't feel like they need to go into that fight or flight or be concerned as to why they're feeling what they're feeling. They just know that it's comfortable and relaxing. So it also helps with delivering energy. the nutrient dense oxygen to the cells and through the body while helping remove the metabolic waste products. So after they compete and they're sore, it can help remove soreness. It can help speed up recovery. Any of those micro tears that happen in the muscle, it can help speed the healing and recovery of those cells. which is really fantastic. So pertaining to the differences in red light and Beamer, red light is going to take a bit more of an anti-inflammatory response, whereas Beamer is taking more of like a circulation, relaxation, recovery approach. So two completely different things. and modalities and approaches, but they cross over in a lot of different areas in terms of what they can help with. So a lot of clients will say, OK, well, which one which one should I use? And I will almost use them interchangeably. Depending on the day and the situation and how the horse is feeling, if it's hot, like it's blistering hot here in Florida, putting the beamer on for 15 minutes, even with a couple of fans blowing on them, is still going to make them super warm. So at times like that, I will opt for red light. But... it's all in the situation that I'm handed really.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's super smart to, you know, to be like, okay, so here's, not even smart, but also it's super handy for you to have that at your disposal. Like here's the situation I've been presented with. Here's this unique horse. I'm not just going to do like a one size fits all approach. I'm going to look at the environmental aspects. I'm going to look at the horse. I'm going to look at the workload. I'm going to look at, you know, all of the different things and then choose your approach, which I think is like not only just smart, but it's so beneficial to the horses and the owners. Like you're getting your money's worth.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:25:24-00:26:34]
Yes, absolutely. And what's cool about it, and I feel like the mark is missed a lot of the time, is that a lot of people think they only need a body worker when they have a problem. Like, oh, my horse broke up lane. I need somebody. Or we're competing all this week. I need you to come do a show visit during the week that I'm there. Or something of the sort. When in reality, like, Your horse needs your support daily. Not saying you need a body worker daily, but in terms of like the preventative measures that can be taken to help ensure that you don't have an injury or that your horse does stay super sound and comfortable while you are competing. It's super beneficial to utilize things like Beamer and Red Light. When you're in the mundane, like you're in the day to day, because it's helping to equip your horse's body with what they need so that they can continue to stay sound.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Do you want to learn how to stretch and soothe your horse anytime, anywhere? WeHorse has a variety of equine bodywork courses for you to help your horse relax and release, whether it's between appointments with your professional bodyworker, after a hard ride, or if you'd simply like to learn how to help your horse ease any tension on your own anytime. Check out WeHorse.com to access over 175 online courses with top trainers and horse people from around the world. We have courses on everything from dressage to groundwork to show jumping to bodywork, including specific courses on equine massage, acupressure, the Masterson Method with Jim Masterson, T-Touch with Linda Tellington-Jones, equine biomechanics, and so much more. And as a member, you get access to everything in our WeHorse library to watch whenever you want. And we also have an app, which means you can download a course or video to watch without Wi-Fi. Perfect for those days at the Byron when you want a quick dose of training inspiration before your ride or a reminder on how to do specific bodywork exercises with your horse. I know for me, I get out to the barn and I think, how do I do that again? So it's a great tool to literally have in your pocket. So what are you waiting for? Go to WeHorse.com and check out our free seven-day trial to access our WeHorse library and see if it's a good fit for you. We can't wait to see you in there. And now, back to the episode. Are there any like precautions or contraindications around Beamer? If I remember correctly, like if you go on the Beamer site, there's like all the different, like there's the Beamer blanket and you can get, I think like a leg wrap and like the pole cover and all these different things. And there's also a lot of things for humans. And I remember somebody once was like, oh, I just put my horse's Beamer blanket over me. And I remember thinking like, Is that too strong? Like, you know, like I wouldn't take a horse supplement, you know, like it's those sorts of things. And so are there any like things to keep in mind relating to Beamer?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:28:45-00:29:42]
In terms of horses, the like number one thing, Well, I'll say number one, two and three to keep in mind, which is the same thing when you're doing massage. Same thing with red light that you have to keep in mind is like, are they pregnant? You know, you can't you're not supposed to use it when they are pregnant. Right. Number two is like open wounds or lacerations or any like acute infections just because you don't want to contribute to a further manifestation of a problem. Yeah. And the last one is like tumors and cancer, which is kind of the same thing as the open wounds, because you don't want to further cause any additional issues.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Right. Like if it's good for circulation, you don't want it to like circulate a problem.

[SPEAKER 1]
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That's kind of the extent of it. You're always there. Yeah. So you're always best to proceed with caution. If you're second guessing it, like whether or not it's OK to use it on a situation, you're really probably better to just not like not use it on that. If I have to second guess myself, I will almost always say I'm thinking this probably is it can be the right fit.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah. Yeah. That old intuition. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
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And now, now we'll go back to tuning forks. This is something that I have never used on my horses or even seen done. So I'm really looking forward to discussing this. What is a tuning fork? Let's start there. What's a tuning fork?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:30:41-00:31:33]
A tuning fork is actually a musical instrument. It has two metal prongs, and when you use a mallet or your leg or something hard, That beats the ends of the metal prongs. It produces a tone or a vibration. So a lot of people in music will use it to tune things. But the vibration and the sound that it gives off is a certain like hertz. And so certain hertz or vibrations are also speak to certain things in the body. So a tuning fork in short is a musical instrument that we use for healing on horses and ourselves.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Like when you go and you do like a meditation, the sound bath and you're like, Oh, so like, it's so soothing.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yes.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Interesting. I didn't know that about it. I saw them and they almost, is it the one that almost looks like, um, like somebody has like some chopsticks, um, Yes.

[SPEAKER 1]
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And they're on the horses? Yes.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah. I was like, are they measuring something? I had no idea it was that. I'm so interested. Okay. So how does it benefit horses? So obviously in terms of the sound healing, but in terms of performance and recovery, how does it benefit?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:32:15-00:34:46]
So when you strike the tuning fork and it begins with this vibration, points of tension or acupuncture points or whatever, you can use the end of the tuning fork and hold on those areas of tension. That vibration, same thing with the beamer, the horse isn't thinking, okay, what's happening here? They're thinking, wow, this is so nice. Oh, that's relaxing. So I had a client a week ago and this gelding he's got some trauma on his right side, his pole. He like, didn't want me to touch it. Like even just resting hand on the middle of his neck. He's like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not here for this. Um, so I pulled out the tuning fork and just kind of worked my way up towards the pole. And within like one 30 seconds, like one 30 second span of being up at his pole, he, uh, had dropped his head he had yawned and licked and chewed and he's like wow and the owners I look over at them and the owners were like wait Wait, you just couldn't touch his pole. And now he's got his head dropped. So it's amazing in the sense of relaxation and breaking up that trauma. In terms of performance and recovery purposes, when you're using it on a large muscle group, it kind of boosts that circulation and blood flow through the area because those vibrations are so small and so gentle. The horse, again, isn't thinking about trying to fight those vibrations. They're just kind of relaxed and letting it happen. So those vibrations are being able to like transfer through the whole muscle and kind of shake things up so that it can have a full, open the floodgates of blood flow and circulation and lymphatic drainage and all the good things can rush in and that muscle can, you know, rest and then replenish.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:34:48-00:34:58]
So interesting. Would you do a session with just tuning forks or would you use it like with another modality that's like a compliment?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:35:01-00:36:16]
I have actually used just tuning forks before, only because I had a horse that was not a fan of any hands. Like they did not, I don't know what happened in its past, but just no, no hands. So I have done that. Um, I love to combine tuning forks and Beamer just because they align so heavily in the gentleness factor. Um, but yeah, Of course, I am a firm believer in using them along with massage. So I will pretty much always keep my tuning fork in my pocket whenever I'm doing a massage, just because if I hit an area and the horse kind of wants to get defensive, I will switch to the tuning fork to treat that area, which kind of takes them out of that defensive state so that we can address the basis of the muscle, the basis of the knot or the tension or whatever it is. So that's like my number one, my number one way is along with that.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:36:17-00:37:12]
the with massage but if i'm gonna just do like in conjunction with one other modality i'll say then beamer is always my my choice i love the combination with the massage because i'm just thinking like if some horses could be like i really don't want you to touch me there right now rather than being like oh okay i guess we're not going to get to work on that spot which kind of seems like it's an important spot to work on but you're saying no you know then it's like at least like well what about this so it kind of gives you that opportunity to still allow um like a release of the area that clearly needs to be released but you're doing it in a way that's not like You know, hey, stop, like, let me just put my hands on you, even though you're saying no. Right. You know, it's like it works with consent, but it also, quote, gets the job done.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:37:14-00:38:24]
Yes. I am a firm believer on listening to what they need. If they are telling me there's a problem here, you need to readdress how you're approaching this, I will 110% take a step back and figure something else out. Maybe they... aren't wanting the effleurage. Maybe they are wanting something that's a little bit more gentle. Maybe they just need some pressure in the area. Like it's, it's, they are so willing to communicate with us. And so many times we don't have our ears open to listen. And I feel like that's where a lot of things get lost into translation because, Oh, my horse is being naughty. Oh, they're not listening. Oh, they're, they're just rotten. Well, what are they trying to tell you? Like, are you just misreading the situation? Not saying that that's the case every time, but like what they typically act rude for the sake of asking, acting rude.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:38:24-00:39:35]
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I feel like, I mean, I feel like I have had so many podcasts, podcast episodes about that topic. And I feel like I could continue to have so many podcast episodes about that topic about it's like how we're, I mean, I don't want to generalize, so I won't use the word like weird, but I'll just say that like so often that is the case that it's like, stop being bad when it's like with the horse it's like I'm not being bad I'm this is just how I'm communicating with you and you won't listen so I'm needing to get louder yes yeah yes and that's that's what I'm here for and that's why we love people like you that listen to the horses The next one I want to discuss is, and this is also a modality that I'm unfamiliar with and quite honestly a little intimidated about, is the cryotherapy. What is cryotherapy?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:39:37-00:41:14]
Cryotherapy is my newest addition to my little toolkit. I think it is amazing. In short, cryotherapy, which, because of cryo, is cold therapy. And there are lots of different types of cryotherapy. But it uses the application of cold to promote healing and recovery within the body. So... it creates like this cryotherapeutic effect in the body, which simulates a response of rushing the cells away from the area of the area of concern, I'll say, and sends those cells to the innermost organs of the body. and charges them with red blood cells, oxygenates them, and then kills off the white blood cells. When you remove that cold therapy, those cells rush back to that area with the essentially supercharged cells so that they can target that area of the body and it basically jump starts circulation, blood flow, lymphatic drainage. Um, it helps with inflammation, all, all that type stuff.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:41:15-00:41:32]
What are like, are there any specific conditions or, um, like a scenario? So maybe it's, um, like post ride or post injury or something like that where like cryotherapy is especially recommended.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:41:32-00:45:17]
Um, Yes. So cryo is great for a whole laundry list of things. Injury rehab is probably one of the biggest ones that I'll see, but also muscle recovery, pain relief, inflammation, and even overall performance enhancements. So in terms of recovery, I actually had a gelding donated to my business who had a suspensory injury and I utilized cryo with his rehab. And wow, what a difference. It is absolutely insane. Um, another interesting one is this just happened. My mom has a herd of cows and, um, she has a bull out with her cows and he popped up lame, brought him up and, um, trying to pinpoint where this pain is coming from and use the thermal imaging camera. And he has hotspot in his foot. And we're like, OK, he's blowing an abscess. That makes perfect sense. This bull was so lame. It is. It's not even funny. So I was like, OK, let's let's just try cryo on it. Because what if what what if what if cryotherapy helps? Did cryo on him. Three days later, did the thermal imaging. And there was like a 15 degree decrease in his surface temperature where the area of the abscess was. It took him like two days to be sound again. And he's been fine ever since. Never ended up blowing the abscess again. um never ended up taking another um lame step after that so in terms of like injury rehab it's it's come in clutch big time yeah so which kind of goes along with like pain relief and inflammation it helps with like joints and large muscle groups if you have a tear or a strain. Those with arthritis, like I said, my old retired mare, she has arthritis. And so I use it on knees and hocks and stifles and she just eats it up. You can see a massive difference between um, for like the next three or four days after I cryo her cause she just feels so much better. Um, so, and then same thing with like overall performance. Um, the company that I went through, which is instant cryo, um, they have been working on, um, some blind studies on taking, um, riders and horse groups, um, And testing, like, not telling the riders which horses have been cryoed and which ones have not. And they're riding them and getting a basic evaluation of how are they feeling? Like, do they feel good? And the riders that rode the horses who had been cryoed were like, they felt so great today. Like, so much lift. And they felt so forward moving and all the things. And that kind of speaks volumes.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:45:18-00:45:19]
Big time.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:45:19-00:45:19]
Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:45:20-00:46:02]
Yeah, yeah, super cool. Okay. So this is a little TMI for the podcast, but that's okay. I'm okay with it. Um, is when I was young, I had a wart on my foot and they use like a cold, um, I don't even know what you would call it, like a, a cold laser or cold something. Um, and they, they said they were burning it off, but I mean, it was, it was cold. So I don't know, but like they're freezing it off, I guess. And it was painful and it sucked. And I'm assuming cryotherapy isn't like that. So what would it feel like?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:46:02-00:46:25]
Would it feel really cold? It does feel extremely cold. But, which is this is what's super great about Instant Cryo, is that they have added in their device a safety feature where there is an automatic shutoff once the surface temperature reads a certain temperature.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:46:26-00:46:51]
degree to prevent a freeze burn um i'll say so yes it is extremely cold um i am i'm actually human certified as well um in conjunction with equine so i ironically do more humans right now than i do horses with cryo but i eventually would like to flop that but Yeah, well, I mean, if it's new to your services, right?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:46:51-00:50:14]
Yes. So I have done several people and myself, but it is very cold. And if you leave it in one spot for too long, yeah, it's probably going to end up hurting you. But but that safety feature where once it reaches that certain temperature, it shuts off. So in terms of reaching that horrible pain, that's not really a concern. Yeah. But it is there are certain there are lots of different types of cryotherapy. So you have like cold water immersion, which is probably what when you say like, oh, go cold, cold hose the legs or whatever. That's kind of a similar or stick therapy. Foot in the bucket. I know some with some people who experience laminitis, you know, they'll say, oh, soak the feet in cold water to help reduce inflammation, that type of thing. Ice boots are huge right now, which are fantastic for cooling down those tendons and ligaments after a heavy ride, which which those are fantastic. And I love them. But with the localized cryotherapy, which is what I do, it is achieving a greater effect than what you get with ice racks or cold water immersion. You're achieving a much higher and greater effect in like. a minute fraction of the time. So to put that into perspective, when you use an ice pack, you're only getting the surface temperature as low as the ice pack will get to which that ice pack is going to melt. That's going to take you 15, 20 minutes plus before that ice is done. Like, you're not going to get any cooler than that. And even if you do go take another ice pack out of the freezer and put it on, yeah, you're going to have another 15, 20 minutes, but... that surface temperature is not going to be reaching the same depth below the surface that you would want. With localized cryotherapy, you are reaching a surface temperature of below 32 degrees in less than 30 seconds. So you have 20 minutes, 30 seconds. You've got maybe 50 50 ish degrees below 32 degrees there's and when you're trying to go with that um cryotherapeutic effect or the thermic shock um when that's what you're going for like you're going to reach that with cryotherapy um much quicker than you will with an ice pack or an ice bath and for those listening um you're speaking in fahrenheit's correct Yes, that's that's correct.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:50:14-00:50:31]
Yeah. Sorry. No, that's OK. I'm a Celsius and I believe I could be wrong in this, but I believe that a lot of Europe is also Celsius. And so I just wanted to make sure that our Canadian and European listeners were understanding as well.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:50:32-00:50:34]
Yes, that's important.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:50:34-00:51:34]
They're like, well, you know, I mean, minus 32 is still very cold, even in Celsius. But yeah. So, okay, we've gone over red light therapy and Beamer therapy and tuning forks and cryotherapy. And, you know, obviously you also do massage and you kind of mentioned that as well. no matter what the type of body work. So if you were to go to a barn or a client and they were just like, yeah, do whatever. And you did, you know, any of the types of body work with them or, or a mix of the, of all of them. Is there anything that you recommend? So it could be massage related. It could be, you know, cryotherapy, anything like that, that you, that you recommend that horse owners do with their horses between sessions. And maybe it's like, oh, well, if it's cryotherapy, you should do this. If it's massage, you should do that.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:51:34-00:54:37]
So maybe it is different or maybe it's just all the same. There are some small changes that I will tell clients depending on the modalities used. But nine times out of ten, it is always ground pulse. Like, ground poles are such a lost art for the... overall biomechanic correctness of the horse ground pulls. And I know that a lot of people aren't going to like me for this, but ground pulls are boring. And I'm not saying, I'm not saying that people are going to love them because of that, but like to walk your horse over the same ground, Configuration of four or five poles for 10 minutes. That's boring. Like, yes, I understand. But but there's not one way to set up four poles there. You're not working the same muscle with one configuration with four poles. The opportunities are endless. For ground poles, you can work the entire body pretty much on a horse that will encourage them to carry themselves correctly. As well as work fine-tuned accessory muscles that don't get worked as much when you're on their back. And that... It's an investment to do ground poles with your horse. It really is because... Like, if you're going to go spend time with your horse, a lot of people want to get on and ride. And I get that. But, like, we're here to help our horses feel the best that they possibly can because it wasn't their choice to... be your horse. You picked them. They are your responsibility to make sure that they are living the best life possible. Do the 20 minutes of ground pulls once or twice a week. That is the soapbox that I will jump on every chance possible is ground pulls. I love them. There are so many good resources out there. I have a couple saved that are like just good overall configurations and when a client does ask me okay so what can i do to help them like before you're out next time and i'm like yes i love that and then i'll be sending them um like after our our session i'll send them you know three or four videos okay try to do these at least once a week ideally like two or three times a week Before I see you next. And I can definitely tell between sessions who does it and who does not.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:54:37-00:56:29]
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Awesome. I am. I just got some. So I didn't want to. I have my horses at home and I've been like, oh, gosh, like, do I want to go and like invest in like a bunch of equipment and things like that? And we had a hurricane that came through a couple of years ago and it was really devastating to my parents property. Like they lost. I mean, it's basically clear cut at this point. Like they just they lost a ton of trees. Um, and so my dad, um, he, you know, we, we use that to our advantage and my dad actually, um, he limbed up a bunch of like 10 foot long, perfect leg width of a ground pole. Um, and so that's what I have now is I have all of these long skinny trees, um, that I now have for my ground pole. So I've been setting them up and they've been great. And, um, we just, um, changed up our paddock. So I have a couple paddocks and they all are connected. And then the final one is, shares the fence line with the ring. So in order to get to the ring, you have to go through the different paddocks. And so one of them were reseeding. And so I was like, oh, well, I don't really want the horses to go down on that paddock if we just reseeded it because it's all of my work will be for nothing. And so we created this little pathway. We did like, we just temporarily fenced this pathway between like through the paddock to get to the ring. And I was thinking, what if I put the ground poles along there so that when the horses are walking through their little pathway to get from paddock to paddock, they have to go through like across the ground poles as well. And I was like, that's kind of a great way for me to, get them, you know, doing some more things.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:56:30-00:56:31]
Absolutely.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:56:31-00:56:40]
Yeah. So I might just like set those up. Um, and then when I want to use them for when I'm riding or if I'm just doing groundwork and things like that, I would just take them away.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:56:40-00:56:50]
But yes, absolutely. Man, I am all, all about, um, work smarter, not harder. Exactly. I love that. Exactly.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:56:51-00:57:50]
Exactly. With everything that we've been discussing, and you've touched on so many important points that go beyond the body work modalities that we've been discussing, but more so like the bigger purpose. So, for example, consent with the horses, listening to what the horses are saying. you just mentioned there as well, like actually making your horses a priority and doing what is best for them, even if it's, quote, inconveniencing. And I don't really think it's inconveniencing, but a lot of people can maybe see it as that. To do things that aren't just for the human temporarily enjoyment. So there's a lot of really important things discussion points. And like I said, bigger purposes that we've mentioned today. And with all of that in mind, what is your hope for the future of the horse industry? It's a loaded question.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:57:51-01:00:18]
It is. It is a loaded question. I think for me, it boils down to viewing our horses as partners and not as tools. Yeah. Like I said before, they didn't they didn't pick us. They didn't have a choice. I feel like it's super important that we take care of what we are given. And especially when it's not their choice, why not do everything you can to take care of them and help them feel their absolute best? Because we are so lucky to be able to come into contact with these amazing creatures. They are incredible. And more times than not, they're going to be able to teach you a whole lot more about yourself and the world and trust and patience and, and, and, and, and all the things. If you just listen to what they are trying to tell you, and that's not, you know, walk up to him and stare at him and say, all right, what are you trying to teach me today? No, just, just spend time and just try to understand like, how they communicate and and how they go about being resourceful in life I know some are kind of clumsy and and ditzy and those are you know the goobers in the horse world but like they they are they're gifts and what it all boils down to is that they're not just tools they're not just a method of transportation they're not just you know something that you use to win a ribbon with they are they have heart they have heartbeat like take care of them they deserve that that's my like my hope if I could see the industry make a major shift like I want to see it go there yeah yeah I'm right behind you on that.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:00:20-01:00:31]
We have four rapid fire questions that we ask every podcast guest. And the first, it's just the first thing that comes to mind. The first one is, do you have a motto or favorite saying?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:00:35-01:02:23]
Yes. The cornerstone of my business, Highland 3.5 Equine Services. 3.5 stands for Proverbs 3.5 through 6, which says, Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding, and in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will direct your paths. And that is the basis of the business. That's the basis of business. how I strive to go about life and that's that's my favorite favorite motto favorite verse the second who has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey ooh my my mom is probably who the one who has like pushed me and encouraged me in all of the right ways not to win or do you know all the big big things but to be there for the horse and do what the horse needs and take care of the horse we were taught you know horses eat first animals they they eat first then we can then we can eat same thing with water i grew up um with my mom saying if you wouldn't drink out of their water trough then they shouldn't have to either. So she has completely shaped how I go about everything in my equestrian journey. It sounds cheesy, but she's my entire, she's just encouraged me so much.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:02:24-01:02:29]
I love that. If you could give equestrians one piece of advice, what would it be?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:02:35-01:04:23]
I am going to be speaking directly to myself here. So whenever I say this, I'm calling myself out. Take the jump and don't wait until you feel ready to start. If you wait until you feel ready to Opportunity is going to have lapped you like six times. Life is way too short to be scared. And you've got to take the jump and do it scared. Like, that's really hard. To think about doing, okay, but I'm not prepared. Okay, but I don't feel ready. Okay, well, it's not the right time. There's never going to be a right time. I hate to break it to you, but if you wait until you have the right time or the right opportunity, you're never going to be ready. I struggled with that whenever I launched the business. Oh, it's not the right time. Oh, I don't feel ready. I don't feel qualified. Those of you who are waiting to... Try the different technique with your horse. Like, oh, I don't feel like I'm ready to try and teach him that. Or I'm not ready to launch my business. Or I'm not ready to stick my neck out and take this viewpoint or try something new. You just got to do it and do it scared and probably flop a time or two or ten times. but you're doing the dang thing. And like I said, I am preaching to myself here. Um, but yeah, do it. Just jump, take the leap.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:04:24-01:04:27]
If I had like a clapping machine, I would hit the button right now.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:04:27-01:04:45]
So it'd be like, I'm, I'm very passionate about that because I have stifled myself so many times in life by being scared. And I, You just, you gotta do it scared. You just have to.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:04:46-01:04:48]
Yeah. Love it.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:04:48-01:04:48]
Love.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:04:49-01:04:54]
The fourth one, please complete this sentence. For me, horses are...

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:04:57-01:05:10]
Life. Horses are... A gift. They are a job. They are a counselor. They are a companion. Horses are...

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:05:13-01:05:37]
everything yeah life like everything you said is is a piece of life yeah yeah they're they are they are life they're pretty cool yeah maya where can people find you and how can they connect with you we're gonna put everything in the show notes So I don't have a website yet, but I'm hoping to have something up soon.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:05:38-01:05:59]
In the meantime, I am on Facebook and Instagram at Highland35EquineServices. And when I do finally establish my website, it will be all over my social. So everybody will be able to find that website then.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:05:59-01:06:14]
We'll put your social media links. And then that way, whenever a website is up, then they can find the link in the bio. But in the meantime, we'll put the Facebook and Instagram up so everybody can follow you and check you out and do all the things.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:06:15-01:06:16]
Awesome.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:06:17-01:06:37]
This has been so informative. Like I said, there's things in here that I'm like, I don't know. I haven't seen it. I haven't, like, it's not in my area. So I've learned so much. Thank you. I'm sure that lots of people listening will have learned something as well. And I just, I loved our conversation. So thank you so much.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:06:38-01:06:44]
This was so amazing. Thank you so much for having me. It was such a blast. Thank you.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:06:46-01:07:19]
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Equestrian Connection podcast by WeHorse. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a rating and review as well as share us on social media. You can find us on Instagram at WeHorse underscore USA and check out our free seven day trial on WeHorse.com where you can access over 175 courses with top trainers from around the world in a variety of topics and disciplines. Until next time, be kind to yourself, your horses and others.

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