#8 Margie Goldstein-Engle: A true legend of the sport

This transcript was created by AI and has not been proofread

[SPEAKER 1]Hi everyone, this is the Equestrian Connection from wehorse, the online riding academy. My name is Christian Kroeber and in today’s episode I gonna talk to one of the true legends of the sport. Margie Goldstein Engel represented the United States in Pan American Games World Equestrian Games, where she won Team Silver in 2006 in Aachen, Germany and even in the Olympics. Having been on the show jumping circuit for decades, she still to date competes on the highest level. We’re going to talk about what makes up the beauty of the sport for her personally and what paved her way from a non-horsey family to a 10-time rider of the year. Let’s go. Welcome to the show, Margie Engel.

[SPEAKER 2]Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, we’re very pleased to have you on our podcast. Margie, we want to talk about you, your career, why you love the sport and you have been really one of the legends of show jumping in North America and you have been around for so long in the sport, in the top tier actually. What actually fascinates you about working with horses and especially what is the fascination around show jumping for you?

[SPEAKER 2]I just, I fell in love with horses at an early age. A friend of mine from grade school used to ride at the stable where they gave lessons. And I would beg my parents for, to take lessons. And I ended up working around the stable in exchange for, for lessons and for extra rides. And, um, eventually I, it just, I just had a real passion for it. I just was like obsessed with the horses. I always liked sports and I liked animals and it, It seemed like a great combination of the two. It was totally foreign for my family because my whole family was involved with different things. My father was a CPA. My mother was a school principal. My one brother, a doctor, the other one, an actuary. So it’s very foreign to them. But it’s just something I fell in love with. And I think probably because it was difficult for me to get to be able to ride. I just I wanted it that much more.

[SPEAKER 1]So how did you actually start? You just said your family was foreign actually to horses. Did you just say, okay, I’m going to go to the next barn and ask if they have a job for me? How did you start? Because not coming from an equestrian family, sometimes these days can be an obstacle.

[SPEAKER 2]Oh, it was a huge obstacle. I went there, I didn’t even really know about this stable until my best friend in grade school, Andrea, was I went out with her. She she rode out there and took lessons. They had a lesson stable and they had a dog and a cat kennel and they had a boarding stable and show horses and they did a lot of they raised horses and ponies. So when I first started and and wanted to get more lessons because it is an expensive sport, I They they originally let me work around. I was too small and too young to take care of the horses. So I worked in the dog and the cat kennels for extra rides. And and my parents were laughing at when I kind of graduated to finally be able to muck the horses and groom the horses when I was you know, when I was working around them enough that they felt comfortable. And it was much nicer cleaning the horse stalls than the dog kennels.

[SPEAKER 1]I can imagine.

[SPEAKER 2]They’re very messy and they eat meat, so it’s not as nice. The cat kennels were very easy because they go in a little sandbox and And that was easy, but I think the Kramers saw how hungry I was to ride and how much I wanted to do it. And as I got better, I was always a little bit of a daredevil and I didn’t mind falling and that kind of thing. So when I was about 11 or 12, they hired me to break their ponies and horses. So I started- Really?

[SPEAKER 1]With 12? Yes.

[SPEAKER 2]Because I mean, they needed someone that was light and small to break the ponies and the horses. And I was always small even. So that they were that part they liked and they liked the fact that I was, you know, not afraid to fall off and and. that I would spend hours, you know, if you work enough with the young horses on the ground, most of the ones that they raised, they never did anything wrong when we were breaking them. It was most of the ones that were sent there that hadn’t been handled much. Those were the ones that were a little more difficult, but they they were great. They were like second parents to me. And I used to spend the night and I was very good friends with their daughters. And they a lot of the horses and ponies, they had me show and to sell. And they also got as as I got a little bit older, they got some racehorses off the racetrack to make into hunters and jumpers and and sell. So I worked for them. I was lucky enough to work for them for most of my junior year. And then I did a lot of catch riding with other other people that own horses and ponies at the stable. So the other people that boarded there, if there was a horse that was a problem or a pony that needed some problems worked out, they would get me to ride them. And I loved riding everything. The more difficult they were, the more of a challenge it was for me. So I was thrilled with anything that they threw at me to ride.

[SPEAKER 1]Does this experience from those days help you even today to adapt to different horses, I mean, that is something that most riders, breaking ponies, breaking horses, probably will never experience in their equestrian life. And does this help you today?

[SPEAKER 2]Oh, I think for sure. I had to, with the catch riding and also, it was easier actually to break the horses and ponies from scratch than it was to remake the thoroughbreds off the racetrack, because then you’re having to untrain what they were trained to do. But you have to learn to adapt to them. you have to learn to make things work instead of me being able to go out and buy a horse that I wanted that was the right type. If there was a problem, they would usually come to me with that horse or pony. And and so you learn to get into the horse’s heads and learn to work out the problem and work with the horses and try and get them on your side. And a lot of the horses that I got to ride at different horse shows when I was was younger, they were catch rides. So I would just get on them at the horse shows. I wasn’t they didn’t live at the stable where I was at and I didn’t get to ride them all the time so I had to learn to to ride a lot by feel and and sense what the horses likes and dislikes were and I had a short period of time to do that so you had to adapt to many different types you know I couldn’t get let’s say I I preferred I was preferred the type that were had more blood and that was a little bit hotter. But I couldn’t be picky. Beggars can’t be choosy. So I had to learn to adapt to all different kinds of horses and see what worked best with them. And it for sure made me appreciate the nicer horses more as I got older and then I got to be a little bit choosier. I didn’t ride as many of the Those were mainly the ones I got hurt on, the ones that were really difficult and had stopping problems or rearing problems or were a little bit tough to deal with. I just got the ones at the beginning that no one else wanted to ride.

[SPEAKER 1]How did it go on then? How did you then get into show jumping? Because if you said you have thoroughbreds, you were breaking ponies and horses, You could have also, you know, took some different turns and not go into show jumping. How did you end up in show jumping then?

[SPEAKER 2]Well, for sure, because of my size and because I would ride whatever. The racetrack actually tried to get me, a lot of the trainers there wanted me to get into that. And I did gallop some racehorses, not at the racetrack or in the races, but to help get them fit. And I did some galloping with, with horses when I started. And some of those trainers were trying to push me into that, but I was never really interested in that, that much. It was just kind of running in a big circle. And I, it was not something I, I really was that passionate about. I really was passionate about the jumpers. And I always loved when I’d go to the horse shows and I was a working student for a lot of different people, Karen Harden, I was a working student for her and some others. And I would love going to the horse shows just to watch. And I would stand by the jumper ring and watch like Rodney Jenkins and Katie Perdant, Michael Mattson, Joe Farges, you know, all the top riders. And I, I always knew that’s what I really wanted to do. And I, at that point I was mainly riding a lot of hunters and equitation and ponies. Um, and then eventually through just people wanting horses ridden, I did, I was able to get some jumpers to ride normally more for resale or to work out different problems. But then as people saw those horses starting to progress and do well, I started to get asked to ride some better ones instead of just the problem ones. So I was thrilled when I started to get, I think my first top jumper was Daydream. He was only five years old when he was sent to me. And, uh, May always, everything was for sale that I wrote. And he was the first one that my father actually helped me put a syndicate together. And I was able to keep him and go on and do the Grand Prix’s because most of the other jumpers that I rode that were nicer horses, they got sold. So it was it was a lot of hurdles, and I had to do everything from taking a bus to the barn because my parents had regular jobs and couldn’t drive me back and forth. And I was afraid I wasn’t going to be able to keep my job at the stable. unless I found a way out. So I found a way to get a bus. And I used to walk to and from the bus station to get to the farm. And I just think if you want something badly enough, you can accomplish almost anything, whether it’s the horses or anything you have a passion for.

[SPEAKER 1]And did it also change your family’s perspective on horse riding? Or are they still to date not really into the sport?

[SPEAKER 2]No, no, for sure. They thought it was at first just like a they thought it was more of a luxury and just a hobby and rather than a profession, right? They never thought it was something I was going to make into a profession. And I did finish, I went to college and, um, because whatever I was going to do, as far as any kind of business, I needed to have some kind of business background. And I enjoyed school. I, I really liked school and, and, um, I it was good to have a background in running. It’s it’s helped me a lot with running my business here in the States, because it’s not just all about the writing. It’s about managing the stable and doing the entries and organized shipping and hotels. And there’s a lot else that goes into it rather than just the writing part. So I was glad that I did get a business education degree from college. And and at the same time I was going to college, I was still working full time at the stable. But, um, at the beginning, when I first started riding, they didn’t want me to ride at all. Cause they were worried because of my size, I was going to get hurt. And they said I could ride up until the first time I got badly hurt, then they didn’t want me to ride anymore. But luckily that, that changed over the years. And because they didn’t want me to even start jumping, but the, some of the trainers at the barn helped. to talk them into letting me jump. And then they just got educated over the years just by coming and watching a little bit. And later in life, I mean, when I think when I won my first car, they realized that there was more to this than it wasn’t just a like a hobby, that there were other things you could do with it.

[SPEAKER 1]And there’s more to it, basically.

[SPEAKER 2]Right. And and actually, as much as they didn’t know about it. My when people did want to start writing books and things, and I I was traveling so much and I when I did come home, I was staying at home. So my mother actually wrote some books for children’s books for school. And another writer named Steve Price got him her to help him write a book. And she learned all about she she studied about the horses and interviewed a lot of the top. Professionals to learn more about them. So they did end up educating themselves about the horses. And even though she still got very nervous when she watched me ride, she used to have to think my father’s arm was pretty bruised by the time she would just kind of hold it and just pray that I wouldn’t fall and get hurt. She was just happy as long as I didn’t get hurt. In the early years, but but later when I got nicer horses to ride, then then they enjoyed watching. And my family, even my brothers, like to come and watch now, and my nephews. So they’ve learned, even though they don’t do the riding, they enjoy coming and watching. And they’ve learned more about the sport and find it very interesting.

[SPEAKER 1]Have those injuries, I mean, fractured shoulders, arms, wrists, and so forth, everything that you have experienced yourself, Have these injuries also made you stronger and also made your will stronger to come back into the saddle?

[SPEAKER 2]I think so. I mean, I probably don’t have enough common sense to worry about it. I never, you know, when you’re younger, you never think that it’s going to happen again. And I was a bit of a daredevil. And even when I was younger and played football with my brother’s friends, cause my brothers were older than I was. I, whenever I do, I kind of went all in. So I would get hurt if I was playing football with the older boys, cause I was a young girl and, and I just, I’d go in head first. So, so, um, It’s not something I was ever I should have worried about it more than I did. But eventually, as I got older, you you most of the injuries, if with a little bit of precaution, probably could have been prevented. But I was taking risks. I probably shouldn’t have riding horses that I shouldn’t have that later. Later on, I didn’t say yes to every every horse that that was around. And you learn to kind of be a little bit pick and choose as you get older because it takes longer to get more cautious. Well, it just it takes longer to to recover from the injuries. It’s just the whole process with the physical therapy and all that. It was it was just it’s that’s a hard process coming back.

[SPEAKER 1]You are a 10-time writer of the year of the American Grand Prix Association. You have represented the States in World Cups, numerous Nation Cups. You even, and I looked this up, recorded a world record high jump in 1987, right?

[SPEAKER 2]I believe so. It’s dating me, but I believe that was what.

[SPEAKER 1]So you have seen it all. How has the sport changed since you became part of the circuit and part of the show jumping world?

[SPEAKER 2]Well, it’s grown like by multiples of 10 at least. There are so many more countries that are involved with this industry now. The prize money has skyrocketed. I mean, we used to think 25,000 to 50,000 was a big Grand Prix. Now, now it’s a million dollars. You know, I mean, it’s it’s just that the prize money that’s involved, the the cost of the horses, you know, it was you could they were easier actually to find because you’re producing the same amount of horses. But there were less people involved with the industry. And now there’s probably the same amount of horses being produced. But so many more people, they’re getting more and more difficult to find the horses.

[SPEAKER 1]Margie, we have been also talking before the podcast about auctions where horses are now being sold for seven-figure price tags. And this is also a major impact that the normal guy cannot really afford coming into the spot that easily as it used to be.

[SPEAKER 2]Oh, absolutely. I mean, when I started, I had investors buy horses at four or five, six years old. and they could get them at relatively normal prices and it was, they were willing to take the risk and you would produce them and then they’d resell them and, and ran it as a business and they could enjoy the sport and make, they, they could make a little money on their investment. Now the initial investment is so much, if they don’t make it, you’re, you’re kind of in trouble and it’s harder to get. It’s definitely more difficult to get people to invest in horses now because the prices are just so high.

[SPEAKER 1]Do you think you would be able yourself, like fast forward into 2022, if you were young again, would you be able to start what you have done back in the days, like really working your way up, kind of like this from dishwasher to millionaire story?

[SPEAKER 2]I mean, it’s difficult to say. I mean, I’m not good at predictions, but I for sure think it would be more difficult now than it was back then, because back then you could get a horse off the racetrack for probably 10,000 or around that. And I had investors getting horses for between 10 and 25,000. And if you got lucky, they were made up into some of them went on and did the Grand Prix’s and could show at the upper levels. And the other ones you could sell as junior amateur horses, jumpers or hunters. And and there was way less risk for an investor. But I didn’t have, you know, any kind of money to start off when I was starting. So I had to, to rely on the investors and different people that enjoy the sport. And they were horse enthusiasts and they would, they would take a shot for, for normal money. But I don’t know that nowadays I’d be able to do that if they had to take a shot at seven figures to buy an investment horse, you know, or a prospect. So I think it would, it would definitely be way more difficult.

[SPEAKER 1]And it changes the entire equation and pressure is up from day one. If you have a horse with a seven-digit price tag, the pressure that you feel from day one is completely different to if you have a horse for a modest price, where you are also able to develop, not even the horse, but also you as a rider, basically together the pair develops. This also changes.

[SPEAKER 2]Oh, absolutely. I mean, I already put a lot of pressure on myself because I was writing for other people. And to me, you know, whether it was a dollar or a hundred thousand, I just, it was other people’s money. And I want to be very careful with their investment. And I figured the better job I did, the more they put money back in and getting more horses. And, and I can’t even imagine having that pressure of someone putting in that kind of investment at seven figures and what that would do to the person and also the investor and the rider. It’s just the pressures would be unbelievable. I mean, it’s just kind of like monopoly money numbers. I mean, it would probably even fathom. But it’s a little bit like the racehorse industry. When they do that with the auctions, it’s getting to be like that. They would buy the yearlings and the two-year-olds for seven figures. And you have to have people that are really into the sport and the industry and are willing to put that kind of money up and same thing happens with those. Some of those make it and some don’t.

[SPEAKER 1]Who are actually in your personal career colleagues, athletes, who are role models for you where you say, this person, they really know how to do it. They are really role models for me. Are there any people you look up to in the equestrian world?

[SPEAKER 2]That’s impossible to name just one. There’s there’s tons of them. I remember sitting by. I mean, you could learn something from everybody and in the industry. And I remember, you know, like I said, I was younger watching Rodney Jenkins at the rail. He had multiple rides, both hunters and jumpers, and had a huge business. Bill Steinkraut stuck out. He was not just a a real classical writer, but a really good person and very ethically a good person and he always presented himself well and had good character.

[SPEAKER 1]A real legend. Stein Karel is a real legend.

[SPEAKER 2]And I read all about him and he was always a very classy man and very proper with, you know, in the industry and he always dressed well. He was always had good values and morals. And those are things that you look up to in people. And the people that, you know, like Ian Miller, who’ve been in the business forever and He stayed fit and and and he looked the same to me when he was older, riding as he did when he was younger. He kept in good shape and he always was very good and meticulous with his training, with his horses and and a good horseman and good at bringing along horses and keeping himself fit and the horses fit. And there’s I mean, I’m just I’m naming mainly people in North America because that’s where I I wasn’t able to go show in Europe till later. You know, because most of the people that I rode for, it was very expensive to fly the horses over. And it, it wasn’t until the team started giving us grants that I first went over to Europe. And then once I was able to go there and watch there’s multiple riders, Luger beer bomb. Well, you know, watching him, it just runs everything top from. top to bottom. He’s had a huge stable. He’s done everything you can do.

[SPEAKER 1]German legend here.

[SPEAKER 2]Yes. And and not just as a writer. Now he’s going on doing things with with events and running those.

[SPEAKER 1]He organized the European Championship this year in Germany.

[SPEAKER 2]And everyone said amazing things about it. And I saw I watched it online. It was it was an amazing event that they put together in a short time. And even if they had a long time to do it, but just watching how he ran his business and how he has all the other writers and coming along. I mean, there’s, but there’s so many different writers that, that I watched over the years, the Whitakers, the, I mean, and they’re still writing, you know, later age. And, and I mean, there’s, there’s just a number of people, like I said, you can learn something from everybody.

[SPEAKER 1]Margie, at the end of every podcast we have the four classic WeHorse questions. And question number one I would like to ask you is, do you have a motto in life?

[SPEAKER 2]I don’t know if I have one model. I just, like I was saying earlier, I think if you’re willing to work hard, and it’s something my parents taught me at an early age, if you’re willing to have a good work ethic and be disciplined, you can accomplish almost anything. You have to take the word can’t out of your vocabulary and just have a very strong work ethic.

[SPEAKER 1]Make it happen.

[SPEAKER 2]and you have to have a real passion for whatever. If you have a passion for whatever you’re going to try and go towards in life, I think you can accomplish a lot.

[SPEAKER 1]Great. Question number two, we already kind of touched upon that, but if you could name one person who has been the most influential person in your equestrian life?

[SPEAKER 2]You know, I don’t know if it’s just in my equestrian life, but probably it’s hard to my parents were just great role models for me in life in general. And I think their basic morals and values have carried forth forward with me and in the equestrian sport also. So I’ve always looked up to them, how they did things and how they kept. My father kept his integrity and kept his work ethic and and doing things correctly and said, at the end of the day, you’ve got to be able to look yourself in the mirror and feel comfortable with what you’re doing and how you’re doing it. And they were great role models for me growing up. So it carried forward into the equestrian sport. As far as the equestrian sport, there’s two numerous people for me to name just one. That would be kind of impossible for me.

[SPEAKER 1]Let’s move on to question number three. If you could give equestrians one piece of advice, what is it?

[SPEAKER 2]Learn to to learn from your mistakes. I mean, this sport has a lot of ups and downs and you’ve got to be able to try and move forward from them. And that was something I kind of fought with myself. I tend to beat myself up at night and go over the negative things over and over all through the night when you had a bad day. But you’ve got to try and look at the positives and look at what you did wrong and go forward and just try and improve.

[SPEAKER 1]And at last, please complete this sentence. For me, horses are my life. Wonderful. Margie, thank you so much. It has been a real pleasure talking to you. What a great career. And yeah, it has been fun. And thanks for being on our podcast.

[SPEAKER 2]Thank you for having me.

[SPEAKER 1]Thank you. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to the Equestrian Experience Podcast. For more information, follow us on Instagram or visit wehorse.com. Make sure you subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts if you are an Android user. Check us out on Spotify or, frankly, wherever you listen to podcasts. If you liked our show, please recommend us to a friend. Thanks for listening from wehorse, the online writing academy, and tune in next time for the Equestrian Experience.