#15 Equine rehabilitation and injury management with Katie Hawkins of Unbridled Equine

This transcript was created by AI and has not been proofread

[SPEAKER 2]Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from wehorse, the online riding Academy. My name’s Danielle Kroll, and I’m your host. On this week’s episode, we’re talking with Katie Hawkins, founder of Unbridled Equine, a business focused on the use of integrative modalities to heal horses, both physically and emotionally, through proven research-based solutions. With over 25 years horse experience, Katie is a certified animal acupressure and massage therapist with accreditation from Rocky Mountain School of Animal Acupressure and Massage, earning the title of Certified Equine Therapeutic Massage Therapist or ETMT. She is also a Certified Permitted Equine Therapist for FEI level competitions. As a competitive show jumper, Katie has dedicated her work through Unbrodled Equine to educating owners, riders and other horse care professionals through hands-on and virtual platforms, showing other equestrians a correlation between the rider’s muscles limitations and their horse’s performance. I’m so excited to chat with her today and discuss things like rehab modalities, equine performance, and how we can ensure our horses are healthy and happy. So let’s dive in. Hi, Katie. Thank you so much for joining us today. I’m really excited to chat about this topic. Um, let’s dive right into it. How did you get into horses and what were your first few years like as an equestrian?

[SPEAKER 1]I love this question because I think everyone has a different story of how horses came into their lives. And for me, I did not come from a family that was into horses, rode horses. So this was something totally unique that I wanted to try out. and so I took a like local summer camp and I would say it was love at first sight uh probably not to my parents liking right they quickly figured out like wow this is really different than soccer um so yeah I started out with a summer camp and then from there took lessons and um saved up and bought my first horse, which was a off the track thoroughbred, a mare, chestnut mare. So I obviously had not heard the chestnut mare sayings at all. And, um, she was perfection. Her name was Gigi. And, um, I, I saved up my babysitting money and, um, she was a horse that was at an auction and yeah, next thing I know, um, I bought her and we, um, evented together. She had a lot of energy, as you can probably guess with a thoroughbred. So what she needed to do was what we did and we invented. And I would really say she was a huge piece of me learning and understanding horses, because I think she was misunderstood for years. And then once we connected and I started to understand her was when she started to flourish. And yeah, that was kind of my young riding career of, you know, being a barn kid and I did everything clean stalls. turned horses out, washed water buckets, like I had one of those upbringings in horses where I worked off as much of my board as I could.

[SPEAKER 2]I feel like that’s like the quintessential horse girl story of like you get into horses, you save up your babysitting money, and you buy this horse. I love it. So let’s, you kind of mentioned a little bit about her being a little misunderstood, you understanding her. Can you talk a little bit more in depth about that? Like, in what ways do you feel that she was misunderstood and how did that kind of continue to inspire your equestrian journey?

[SPEAKER 1]It’s a great question, and I couldn’t have said at the time that I understood it. It was more, I think, a genuine curiosity that I carry through life and always wanting to know why. Um, so sometimes I completely drive people crazy with my wives and trying to understand them. But when it comes to horses, um, what it gave me was a curiosity and understanding, you know, taking. the history of horses as being a flight animal. We’ve domesticated them. And now, you know, we asked them to jump and do dressage work and be in a frame and all these things that wouldn’t come natural to them. And why do they let us get on their back every day? Like, Why do they allow us to do this? And so that led me, even as a teenager, um, I was really lucky where there was one woman that worked at the barn that had kind of a deeper understanding of horses. And I remember with Gigi, my horse, she taught me how to like join up with her in a round pen. And that was a side of horses I had never understood. And she taught me body communication from them. And. you know, this sweet woman that didn’t have to take this extra time to explain to a teenager all of this stuff. I think she saw my heart was genuine and that I had a true curiosity in learning this. And it was kind of that moment that I wanted to have a greater understanding of what my horse needed from me. And I kind of take motherhood on the same way. Like both of them, I have two daughters. They’re totally different. So how do I need? I can’t mother them the same way. And so I think of that with horses like I can genuinely come as I am. But however, I work with them needs to be tailored towards their needs and their understanding. And that really came from learning outside the barn in a round pen with a thoroughbred that raced and then was a broodmare and then had a second career with, you know, a 13 year old kid that wanted to go fast and jump big jumps and to be safe and to really do it correctly. it took stepping back and slowing down. And what I saw was though, that wasn’t maybe what I wanted, quote unquote, it gave me more than I even realized, because our connection was so great. And I felt like I understood her so well, that she would have jumped the moon for me. And you know, I actually had Gigi until she was in her 30s and until the day she passed away. And yeah, I just, I really feel like she was like that horse, even though she was my first one, but that horse that gave me, she gave me what I didn’t know I needed.

[SPEAKER 2]As so many of our horses do, right? I think, you know, there’s like that saying that no bad dog or every dog is a good dog or it’s like everybody thinks they have the best dog and no one is wrong. It’s something like that. I’m totally butchering it.

[SPEAKER 1]I have the best dog.

[SPEAKER 2]I totally have the best dog. And so I feel like it’s the same way where we all have our own unique experiences with our horses. And we, you know, it almost feels like they choose us. You know, and I that sounds so woo woo. But at the same time, I do feel as though the horse meets you where you’re at and then gives you what you need. And I just love that.

[SPEAKER 1]I couldn’t agree more. And I think the more I’ve opened myself up to believing that versus putting it into a box of like what I want, like I have been leasing horses the last six years or so. And really, by choice, I wanted to learn how to ride different types of horses, because I had always had a horse. And although that gives you the foundation to work with that specific horse, I really wanted to learn a broader understanding of how to ride a hot horse or a horse that needs more leg or you know just all these different types of personalities and uh I really feel like each one you know when I don’t say you know if you say like oh I want a bay gelding like maybe you really need like a gray mare you know and so it’s like I have just said like right now in my life I need fun, safe, and willing. I’ll give adjectives. Then I think trainers, I truly believe in trainers matching you with horses since I’m truly an amateur through and through even though I’ve ridden my whole life. They know what I need and what’s safe for me. Then I’ve also been able to go from hunters to jumpers, move up through the jumpers. But then when I needed a horse that was going to go to Wellington with me and take me up to the meter 10, meter 15 stuff, I needed like someone that had been there, done that. And like Ted was my man, you know, Ted had me, he had done So he was like, girl, I’m, you know, I’ve done this. And so he was able to say like, don’t worry, I got you. And that was so, it was so different for me and so cool. And so I really think knowing the horse you need at a time is more than just what they look like. And they do, they come into your life and when you’re open to it, it’s such a cool experience.

[SPEAKER 2]So how did all these experiences start to shape your career in terms of going into bodywork and massage therapy and ultimately starting Unbridled Equine?

[SPEAKER 1]Hmm. That’s a fun story. Uh, I didn’t, I didn’t plan this. Uh, and so, um, my undergrad is in animal sciences, so I actually worked in zoos out of college and then, um, decided to go back to school, get my master’s in education and wanted to somehow combine animals and education because I knew that they were great connecting piece for people. And everyone loves to learn about animals or have animals be part of their educational experience. And so that kind of led me down where I was working in zoos and with. uh, field trips and, and summer camps and all that kind of stuff. And then, um, I left the working world for a while and, uh, had my two daughters. And then after my second daughter, I had a lot of my own health struggles. So, um, I had herniated discs in my back. Um, I was very sick during both of my pregnancies and on bed rest. And then. With that came struggles emotionally. And so it was after my second daughter that I kind of went through my own health journey. And by going through that, I just naturally kind of veered in the direction of, oh, I’d love to learn how to bring this type of health care to my own horse, who was an aging hunter named Oscar that needed, you know, a little extra help. Like I was good at maintaining him and his fitness and any kind of injections he needed. But what are these other pieces that can go into looking at a horse holistically, not looking at holistic, like different types of modalities, but looking at the whole body. and the patterns that we can find. And so that naturally put me in the direction of bodywork. And when I went to get my massage certification, I’m at the class like, no, no, no, I don’t want to make a business out of this. I have two young kids. I just want to learn how to massage my own horse. And so I left there, had to do my hours back at home and my case studies. And as the hours went on, I just was floored. by how well this worked. And I kept pinching myself, like, OK, this really can’t be this cool. And as I finished up my certification, and then people that would see me working or friends of case studies that I had started asking me to work on their horses, and I just kept seeing these horses transform. And from there, at 3 a.m. I don’t know about you, but my best ideas come to me randomly.

[SPEAKER 2]Or like brushing your teeth or in the shower all the times.

[SPEAKER 1]And you’re like, I don’t have a notepad. Correct. It’s like, why? Why right now? And I woke up my husband and I was like, I think I’m going to make a business out of this massage thing. He was like, awesome, honey. Go back to bed. Yeah. And from there, through my own struggles and figuring out what health looked like for me on this other side of having sickness in my life and how getting healthy wasn’t just a one-time thing. It was a lifestyle. It was diet change. It was exercise. It was having the right kind of doctors and professionals in my life that made up kind of my healthcare team for physical and emotional health. And then, through that, like I felt like the word that came to me was I felt unbridled. I wasn’t stuck and being kind of forced into a way of thinking or feeling that I have freedom. And I finally was able to tell my body, like, I accept you exactly where you are right now. And I think as a woman, that is something we always struggle with. And I continue to struggle with, but just becoming friends with my body and telling it like, I’m going to give you what you need. And like, we have free reign to do what we want. And unbridled equine came from there. And it started off where I was like, Oh, I’m just going to work part-time and do this little side hustle of massaging horses for my friends. And within a year, it was a full-time job. Um, all of a sudden I had to hire a nanny and, uh, I was like, it took on a life of its own because I felt really driven to have the brand. be rooted in this idea of not only, okay, we’re bringing muscle health to horses since it started with massage, but how do we take care of our horses to not just fix what the current problem is, but look at them and see what does this horse need in particularly. And I think having my riding background. Um, my animal background and then an education background as well. It was all of a sudden my wanting to not just go and massage the horse, but work with the owner or the trainer of how can we help improve this horse’s life all staying within my scope of practice. So sometimes that means. Talking to the barrier or talking to the vet or talking to the person they use for acupuncture and not seeing everything as these siloed pieces, but seeing us as the animals healthcare team. And I think that was a new idea, at least for my area in the Chicagoland area, of this idea that a body worker isn’t just going to come in and burn incense and have their energy balanced. Because is that part of it? Yes. Anytime two beings are sharing touch, there’s energy exchange. So yes, that’s part of it, not burning incense. I generally don’t recommend burning things. But this idea that I really wanted to bring, not just body work, but research based, um, understanding, you know, the journal articles and what’s coming out and what are we learning and what are best practices and how can I have this toolkit of modalities within my massage tool belt that with each force I can bring out the quote-unquote tool I need, if it’s trigger point release or it’s myofascial release or it’s therapeutic massage versus deep massage, what does this force need and what are they showing me or telling me that they need so that I am an active participant in their healthcare versus just giving them what I think they need.

[SPEAKER 2]I am admittedly obsessed with this type of work and this type of mindset. I actually went through something with one of my horses. I personally, years ago, I had broken my right hip in two places from something unrelated to horses.

[SPEAKER 1]And then

[SPEAKER 2]About a few years later, this horse came into my life, this beautiful mare, who I still have today, Soda, and she had scar tissue on her right SI. And we had done some different things, but I was told it was going to be fine, and it seemed like it was going to be fine, and didn’t think much of it. Slowly her pelvis started to rotate, and it really started to, it caused me to step back and think, remember when you went through this? And remember how it made you feel when no one understood you and when people were telling you something that you just knew wasn’t right for you. And I started to really look at it from that mindset with my horse when it was like, but I, I need to look at her. like you mentioned from a holistic perspective of her entire body. So what is causing the rotated pelvis? Where is she compensating? Where is she maybe pulling or straining in other areas of her body? How can we work with, like you said, my farrier, all of those different things to help to, you know, heal this horse. And I have gone through so many different modalities with her, all that have been beneficial. Um, and the change in her behavior, is the most drastic of all and I just I I can’t vouch enough for working with body workers and people like you had mentioned that have the mindset of the whole horse. And it’s not just a, well, you only need to do this one thing, or it’s what I say, go, or, you know, things like that. I think it’s so important for us to not only learn to listen to ourselves, but also to learn to listen to our horses. Um, so I just, I think it’s wonderful.

[SPEAKER 1]You’re her advocate, right? you are her voice and I do believe that with, I’m not going to say all, but I’m going to say most and a majority of horses behavioral struggles lead back to pain.

[SPEAKER 2]Absolutely, absolutely. The amount of people that would say, oh well you know just try this different training thing, just try this different, and I always thought yeah but does anyone think that maybe it’s her pelvis you know, like all of those things.

[SPEAKER 1]So we go back to this obvious thing that we know, um, and their ability to, I mean, they’re stoic because they have to be for survival. And then they figure out the way with their body to compensate and keep going. And we, unfortunately, unless we’re either ahead of, you know, pre having and being somewhat, you know, ahead of the game in wanting to help take care of them or being very in tune to where we right away feel that something is off, um, they’ll keep going until it’s so bad that they can’t. And I mean, God bless them, right? Like we don’t deserve that because they’re so good to us, but it is that piece of, okay, wait a second, like let’s problem solve this. And everyone put your brains together and your trainer is part of that. And your horse friends are part of that. And not often is Google part of that because that’ll send you down a road, but you have these people that are resources in your life And I really think as people are experiencing this in their own lives and applying it to their horses, and horses are not so much of a agricultural animal, but a companion animal and our, you know, our athlete, our friend, but we want to have them feel as good as possible for as long as possible, because not only does that allow us to ride them, but we want them to feel good. And that takes a team of people. And it really takes going back to the drawing board sometimes and figuring out like, yeah, I know this is going on training wise, but can we go back to the pelvis?

[SPEAKER 2]Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]Can we refer back to this again? And it is important to ask those questions. So I I commend you as a horse owner in applying your own lessons learned for your horse because I do think she probably came into your life just for that reason.

[SPEAKER 2]She chose me, right? It goes back to that whole thing. She’s like, I think she has a hip issue. Let me show her mine. Do you want to learn how to stretch and soothe your horse anytime, anywhere? We Horse has a variety of equine bodywork courses for you to help your horse relax and release, whether it’s between appointments with your professional bodyworker, after a hard ride, or if you’d simply like to learn how to help your horse ease any tension on your own, anytime. Check out WeHorse.com to access over 175 online courses with top trainers and horse people from around the world. We have courses on everything from dressage to groundwork to show jumping to bodywork, including specific courses on equine massage, acupressure, the Masterson Method with Jim Masterson, T-Touch with Linda Tellington-Jones, equine biomechanics, and so much more. And as a member, you get access to everything in our WeHorse library to watch whenever you want. And we also have an app, which means you can download a course or video to watch without Wi-Fi. Perfect for those days at the barn when you want a quick dose of training inspiration before your ride or a reminder on how to do specific bodywork exercises with your horse. I know for me, I get out to the barn and I think, how do I do that again? So it’s a great tool to literally have in your pocket. So what are you waiting for? Go to WeHorse.com and check out our free seven day trial to access our WeHorse library and see if it’s a good fit for you. We can’t wait to see you in there. And now back to the episode. So what are some of the rehab modalities that you offer? Um, and then what do they support? So like each one, you know, might work the body in a different way. So let’s, let’s dig into that a little bit.

[SPEAKER 1]Well, and that’s, what’s interesting when we, because unbridled started off as simply massage. And then what I was hearing from the vet community was this issue of. Yes, but like when horses get hurt, they’re not rehabbing them properly. And it’s not always out of bad intent. It’s often out of a lack of information. lack of capabilities or equipment. And the vets feeling like, you know, we really don’t want to have to treat a re-injury. That’s not our goal. But we’re not there to control what they’re doing with the horse. And so rehab has mostly been done and still continues to be done in someone’s barn, either their home barn or their barn they’re training at and boarding their horse. But there is a you know, emerging part of the industry and our unbridled rehab and performance solutions started two years ago, which was a little bit before there was even much information out there. but came from a need I saw in the area and just an interest. And so from that, I wanted to really figure out what are the modalities that are needed for a majority of injuries. And the interesting thing is that every single horse’s rehab, even for the same injury, looks different. I wish there was this like, oh, your horse has a suspensory strain. Here is what you do. It is just not that simple. It’s fascinating to me because I kept thinking there would be kind of like protocols that would come up for the specific injuries. And maybe there is a you know, an idea like, oh, we want to look at proprioception or where their body is in space and their understanding of that when we have a neurological issue. Yes. But the specific exercises are going to be different for every horse. And so this is where I think the. area of rehab really is important so that that injury can get healed and the whole body can get healed from those compensation patterns or what’s going on. Unless it was an acute injury, which I mean, we’ve had those, I mean, we’ve had a horse that God bless her, but she impaled herself on the pole during turnout. and survived it and so that was wound care and teaching her how to reuse that limb and then fractured bones that that’s not a game ender anymore and how do you work with a horse that is coming from a long-term stall rest to movement again and then we also have that gray area when we’re rehabbing a horse when you have been working with them either hand walking or on the ground and then you have to go back under saddle And it’s kind of this. Okay, here we go. Okay. I hope I, I hope I survived this. And what if we added in a step there where the horse could strengthen themselves properly before they have a rider on their back, which adds weight and our own imbalances. And so with our rehab center, one of our key pieces, um, was our Hudson Aqua Pacer equine treadmill. And so the water treadmill was the ability to use hot and or cold water. at different heights, which is changing up how the horse moves through the water and how buoyant they are. Plus the treadmill, which is adding the movement. So how long are they going to be walking on the treadmill? And this this piece and modality is what I would call probably the coolest tool that we get to use. And one thing that was a huge learning curve was once we got the Aquapacer in, there was this importance that, and this is probably my education background, but how do you use this tool properly? Because used improperly or not understanding the importance of the different pieces that you add in for the horse, or how you even train them to go into a metal box that we close up and fill with water and start moving the floor. I mean, that is their worst nightmare. Maybe just add a plastic bag. We would really be torturing them. And so it is just through necessity that we came up with a whole training protocol because our goal as a rehab center is not to have them drugged or sedated. Because when you do that, although that is necessary for at times for safety, Um, when you’re looking specifically at rehabbing them, especially in a water treadmill, if they are sedated, they’re not moving.

[SPEAKER 2]And they’re not also changing their brain pattern of how they’re moving as well.

[SPEAKER 1]Yes. And so although it can like maybe take the edge off of an Arab that, you know, really is worried about everything and that’s just their personality. Um, but they can learn. And so what I wanted was no matter how long it takes to train them, we are going to train them to accept this as a positive because once they do, they love it. They’re splashing. They’re so like, they’re jazzed to go into the water treadmill and then they come out of it, like really proud of themselves and like their chest popped up, you know, like, yeah, I just did that. Um, and so the water treadmill was a really great. piece of rehab equipment that is not available to the vast majority of horse owners and is used in different ways for different injuries. We also have a dry treadmill as well, which is just your regular treadmill where you’re able to put them on, change the incline, change the speed and the time. So looking at the variables that you’re playing with, this kind of takes us back to like science, um, science class. Okay. What are my variables here? And what am I changing in my, um, vibration therapy? Um, there’s, uh, we have a hot Walker that it’s funny. I think the hot Walker is a undervalued piece of equipment that a lot of people have access to at their barns. Um, and that tool, believe it or not, gave us the most fitness out of all our recaptures for the most injuries. Um, the only time I would say that the hot Walker was not ideal was when it was for a horse that needed to go in straight lines versus any kind of circle. Um, and so that’s when your treadmills come into play. Cause they’re working straight, but I would choose a hot Walker over, um, really most, I mean, especially when they’re past needing to be like hand-walked by a person and can, with a sane mind during rehab, go in the hot walker, they like it too, because it’s a group activity. Even though they’re separated, they’re with their friends. And a lot of times during rehab, they’re not getting turned out. And so this is a way for them to have kind of that bonding, you know, we’re all doing this together. Hey, buds, we’re going in a circle. And they really do get into this just like calm, movement. It’s walking and it’s calming to them. And we do that upwards of an hour, depending on what the horse is there for. A solarium is also something we use, which is using UV and infrared lights to penetrate muscles, increase blood flow, lymphatic fluid. Chicago is really cold. And so anytime we need to heat anything up before working it, Uh, in the winter, a solarium is a lovely option for that. Um, and the horses just relax and like it. It’s enjoyable. Uh, massage and acupressure are another big part, uh, that I am part of, uh, Magnawave, PEMF therapy, red light therapy, kinesiology taping, those kinds of, uh, pieces that bring. I think kind of round out, uh, all the different modalities that are important to, to rehabbing a horse. Um, but knowing that each horse isn’t going to use all of them.

[SPEAKER 2]So going back to the walking, so you had mentioned the treadmill and the hot walker. So let’s say somebody doesn’t have access to that and they are physically hand-walking their horses themselves. What is the importance of the quality of the walk? You know, you get some horses that are kind of pacing around, their head is up. You get some that are relaxed, but they’re so relaxed. They’re dragging their feet and they’re looking over here and they’re dragging their owner there. And what are, what’s like, what is kind of the importance? How do you recommend it? All of the things.

[SPEAKER 1]Okay. Preach it girl. Cause this is my thing. Um, I call it purposeful hand walking. And I am teaching this to owners all the time because something unbridled offers that we have created out of seeing a necessity for it. is that it is hard to bridge the gap between, because not everyone can send their horse to a rehab center, maybe because of location, monetary wise, you know, it’s just not available to everybody, but we can rehab at home. And so the hand-walking piece is almost something that you’re going to do with most horses at some point. And so what I’ve come up with is like purposeful hand-walking. And that starts with the person walking them, get off your phone, You can’t be looking at your phone while you’re walking them. Yeah, maybe eventually like listening to a podcast or something like once you have the horse walking well, but at the beginning, and you know, this is so important and something we tell our employees like No phones, you are tuned into the horse. And ideally with hand walking, it is something you want to do during a quiet time at your barn. Um, not, you know, when all the horses are getting turned out, you have to think of the rehab horses mindset. They aren’t really understanding that they’re hurt and they don’t understand why their schedule has changed completely. Because their schedule might have been, they get turned out for X amount of hours, and then they get ridden, and then they go to a horse show on weekends, however it looked. And now all of a sudden, they’re just like stuck at home, not hanging out with their friends. And so it is important to create a structure where they understand, and not right away, that rehabbing is what their job is right now. And so with hand walking, hand walking them during a time that is quiet and consistently at a similar time. So if you have to hand walk them twice a day, it might be after they get fed their morning breakfast and you come after work and it seems to be around five o’clock. But if there’s some consistency to it, that helps them. And then where you hand walk is important. It could be in your arena. indoor or outdoor, as long as the horse is okay and going on the footing in that arena, that might work for them if that’s something that would get them too excited because that’s where they’re ridden. Aisles are great places to hand walk. Boring as can be. but you can make them fun. And that can just be changing up, going into each aisle, going into different aisles. The other option is if you have a horse that can handle it, walking them on some kind of limestone or dirt path is nice as well. But what I really suggest to owners is you being tuned in with the horse, and you walking at a pace that is appropriate for them, but is not letting them lag behind. And if the horse is acting, you know, full of themselves or it’s not safe, then that’s when being inside might be important because then you take out you know, the variables of distraction and the car driving by or a horse, you know, whinnying to them. And if you need to use some kind of, you know, nose chain or something like that, and you use it appropriately for a horse, you want to make sure you and the horse are safe. So for example, having them get loose from you is not hand walking. That’s the opposite of what you want. And so I would always talk to your trainer or your vet. What is the safest way for me to hand walk this horse? A majority of them, once they get into the routine, they’re willing to do the hand walking and it doesn’t become such a like exciting, crazy time because they know what to expect. And then the other pieces that I really like is if you hand walk, let’s say the vet wants you to hand walk 10 minutes twice a day. At the end of that hand walk, if possible, let there be some kind of reward. So if that’s grazing, go let them graze for five minutes. If you got a little longer, great. Do it for longer. But don’t go hand walk them on grass. That’s not going to go well. Um, and how do you expect them not to stop and eat? Or maybe a reward is they get to go and see some of their favorite horses, or maybe it is a treat in their bucket and you spending some time. Grooming them brushing them because don’t forget that part either. I think a lot of people stop doing the little. horsemanship pieces that we do. And something I really, really talk to owners and my employees about is like, I want them groomed as nice as they would be groomed for a show. Like put the hoof oil on their feet, you know, get their tail beautiful, like have them feel good. And that is a really bonding way and it’s enriching for them. So that could be, if your horse likes being groomed, that could be a reward as well. But think about it in the training aspect of, I’m going to purposely, safely hand walk this horse in an area that is appropriate for them. And at the end of it, I’m going to give them some kind of reward for And then all of a sudden they’re starting to get in the mindset that you are tuned in them and they are tuned into you. And then, you know, this really isn’t so bad because at the end I get to go eat grass with my favorite person. Um, and so that’s where. Hand-walking doesn’t have to be, um, this, all this boring thing I have to do, like cold hosing, cold hosing is another thing that’s just monotonous and not fun because eventually in your horse’s rehab, in that purposeful hand-walking, you’ll be able to add in, we’re going to walk over poles. We’re going to back up. We’re going to do turns a certain way. We’re going to add in. I love it when we just like are able to just put poles all over the arena. My kids are really good at this. I’m like, just go put the poles down wherever. And we make it like a maze. And although it may seem kind of silly, it really does engage them. And so when the horse is at that point, there’s a lot you can do to make hand walking worth the time and energy that you’re spending.

[SPEAKER 2]I think that’ll be really helpful for a lot of our listeners that, you know, may be in a little bit of this situation that they’re hand walking, but they don’t know if they’re doing it right or all of the things. So thank you for that. So I want to go to your website for a second. For those who will be checking it out after this, it’s unbridled-equine.com. And you say in your bio, quote, muscles never lie. And that’s the reason equine massage gives owners, trainers, and riders a deep understanding of the horse’s physical health. One massage session shows areas of tension or weakness that may be causing training issues, unquote. So can you elaborate on that for a little bit?

[SPEAKER 1]Yes, definitely. I love that one. Muscles Never Lie is one of my favorite just, I don’t know, sayings that I came up with or that came to me and I really feel passionately about. And kind of my thought process behind that is that, you know, the horse’s communication while I’m working on them through massage is obviously nonverbal. And the horse, During really at all times, but during massage is immensely connected to their body. They are more connected to their body than we are for sure. And so when I’m working on them, not only am I feeling what their muscles feel like. And this is something that I think is gained through just hours touching horses and, you know, time touching your own horse and learning what muscles feel like, what that particular horse’s muscles feel like. And that could change even based on their age, discipline, anything like that on no two muscles feel the same. And so while I’m massaging, it’s this quiet observation, um, through my hands and of the horse looking for. That they’re, they’re guiding me to the areas of tension. I have a flow to my massage because I like to do the whole body every time. But what I’m looking for is the horse to not only for me to feel maybe an area that has tension, but for the horse to show me, yep, this is the spot. and for them to release the tension. And that looks anything like you might see a double blink. You might see licking and chewing, yawning, big size, tooting, pooping. I get it all. And my favorite one is when they really have something stuck and they yawn about 10 times in a row. It’s the coolest thing to watch because they can’t hold it back. They just, it just comes out of them. And so by putting my hands on them and by listening to them. Um, it really shows me where they are having areas of tension. And then I go back to that question of why. And so using body mechanics and understanding that a horse that has a left front shoulder that is tight, look for that diagonal correlation. Is anything going on in their right mind? If a horse has Their front end feels really tight, maybe pectorals or their lower neck muscle going into, they don’t have clavicles. So that subclavian groove in the front of their shoulders just holds an immense amount of tension in all horses. And with that area, are they front loading? Why are they doing that? Are they not engaging their hind end because of pain? And my favorite thing is not to learn too much from the owner or trainer or vet prior to working on them. Because I love when I get to bring my observations and what I felt back to these people. And they’re like, oh my gosh, yes. When I’m riding them, they can’t work off my right leg. And I noticed that, you know, maybe it’s their left hind. And I’m like, wow, I’m feeling this. Let’s figure out, do we think it’s this causing this or, and then all of a sudden the rider will be like, yeah, I have these right hip problems. you’re like oh here we go now we’re getting into it and so i’m just this source of information that i get during a massage that when i work on a horse consistently i love it when i get to talk to the owner about you know, sometimes there’s just consistent issues and that’s okay. We all have areas that were consistently tight. And so if that’s just the horse, great, we’ll maintain that. If there’s something that’s changed, let’s try to figure out why. And it could just be you’re having them do something different. And that’s okay. Sensitivity and tightness is not always bad, but it’s information. And if we see something that’s really bothering them, let’s figure out, um, maybe some exercises that we can do or some stretching that we can do, or, you know, different pieces that we can put into play to maybe help them that aren’t involved with writing, um, that can just round out your horse care with them. And so I, my, I really enjoy. listening to the horse and then being able to communicate to the people in their life what I feel and let’s talk through the why because all of us together may be able to figure it out for them.

<p>[SPEAKER 2]I think one of the things that you had mentioned there too is important to address as well is for riders to also get themselves checked out, to also see their own body workers, go to massage, go to osteopathy, go to Cairo, whatever it may be, to also look at, okay, well, are you holding something in your own body that could be affecting your horse when you’re riding it? And if it’s a reoccurring thing with your horse, have you gone and addressed anything with your own self? I think that’s…</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]I’m seeing a trend in riders and trainers taking better care of their bodies. And, um, maybe then in the past, cause nothing pains me more than being at a horse show and watching an FBI rider, like limping around. And it’s hard for me not to be like, can I help you? Like what’s going on here? Um, because their horse feels good like they should feel good but really understanding that the way you feel, and it’s not bad again that something like I have a right hip issue too. And it’s from my back but I have to realize when I’m meeting right. and I got to get weight into my left seat bone. And so just understanding the riding mechanics that you have to do to help the horse out to be even, knowledge is power. So just knowing that with your body, but because it’s the two of you working together, you can’t fix the horse without fixing the rider too.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]What is your advice for how our listeners can work with their vet to create a rehab program at their barn if they’re not able to go to a rehab center or anything like that?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, this is a big one and like I said something I see that’s that’s needed and something as a consulting that that we’re offering from unbridled is being that bridge between the two. That’s a really busy. And so they are there to you know, inject or shockwave or do whatever’s needed for that injury. Um, and what I really empower owners to do, or what I do for them or with them is for them to research the injury and really understand what the injury is. Um, cause we can all say like, oh, it’s, you know, their coffin. But what is that? What’s the function of that bone? And then finding quality sources of information for rehab exercises. And there are a lot of great resources out there. And don’t just look for exercises that are moving based. There could be ones, like I said, stretching, flexibility, proprioception, understanding how to get their body to work more cohesively so this injury doesn’t reoccur. And then going back to that why, really try to think about, and this is maybe when your barn friends or, you know, a trainer or somebody can help you start to figure out why did this injury occur? If it’s something that has been going on for a prolonged amount of time. Um, and then the biggest thing is I like to do things on a weekly schedule because when you’re rehabbing time can kind of get nebulous where you forget how long you’re doing things or You were like, how long am I supposed to hand walk now? I’m doing these pieces and weekly intervals allows you to feel like you’re making progress. And something you have to know is that rehab isn’t linear, so you have to adjust it. And that might mean taking a step back. That might mean the horse is healing faster than you thought, or they are being an active participant. And it’s it’s going really well. We can move up a step. And so planning it out, even if that means making you know, getting a Monday through Sunday calendar or whatever it is. And like, this is what I’m doing each day and nothing feels better than checking it off. Um, and that way too, you have a really comprehensive piece that you’re bringing to your vet. And I guarantee you, your vet is going to be more willing to work with you. If you have an organized system that you’re showing them, here’s what I’m doing. And they’re like, wow, this is great. Okay, let’s add in blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But when you just say to your vet, what’s my rehab plan? It’s pretty generic what you get. And just from that, I don’t think it’s a lack of caring or knowledge from a vet. I think it truly has to do with our vets are taxed and there is a lack of time. And so you really, again, have to be that advocate, but those would be my steps for coming up for a rehab plan.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]I just recorded a podcast regarding equine nutrition. And for those listening, it’s episode number 13, if you want to go back and listen to it. But one of the things that we discussed was the importance of keeping like a journal of any changes, things like that, because if you’re looking at, for example, in that one, it was regarding nutrition, all of these different things on a daily basis, the importance of it for your horse so that you’re not just thinking, well, I think I think I changed it back then, but I don’t quite remember when it was, you know, or whatever it may be like our brains are overwhelmed with so many different things. Remembering a small change can be hard. And I think it’s so important as well to look at all of the daily things. So it’s not just feed like you had mentioned, keeping a daily log so that if you do run into anything, you can show it to your vet, you can show it to your farrier, you can show it to your body worker and you can say, here’s what I’ve been doing. Here’s the, you know, the daily things that my horse has been doing when I’m not working with it. Um, you know, if you can speak to a bar manager or something like that. And, and I think that that is a, very, very easy and free resource that so many of us can be doing that will benefit us in so many ways.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Well, if there’s any app developers out there that, I mean, I’m like one of those things that I’m like, if we could have a rehab app where, cause I just keep track of it, even in my notes for horses that I’m rehabbing, but I mean, paper and pen, you can’t beat it, but like sometimes being paperless is nice. Um, but yeah, it’s just that simple thing of like, just keeping those little pieces. Cause that’s all rehab is, is these small changes and progressions towards a bigger goal. And kind of leading off of that nutrition piece, that’s something I’m not sure if you guys talked about as far as with rehab, but it’s a very important piece with rehabbing. Check your label of your grain and look at inflammatory products that are in there. And oftentimes rehab forces need to have a feed that is not for performance forces and that check your sugars. And sugar comes in a lot of stuff.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]That’s such a good point. The inflammation. Such a good point.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yes. Inflammatory foods. And with most horses that I rehab, one of the first things I look at is what they’re getting fed. And especially for a horse that has something that’s inflammation based, um, let’s look at what they’re ingesting every day. And. Also, you know, it could be a long-term change or it could be something just during that period of time. But if your horse is acting up and that is unusual for them, understanding that they’re on stall rest, what are you putting into them that could be causing that to you?</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]That’s a really good point. Let’s talk about prehab. There’s been little sprinklings of it so far, but I’d like to address it directly. So first of all, if you could define for our listeners what prehab is, and then also maybe go into some exercises that we can incorporate into our routine with our horses to hopefully prevent common injuries from occurring.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Yeah, yes. I love this part. And prehab is something that Again, I think it’s newer to the industry and an idea of, I look at it as being one step ahead, trying to prevent injury. So prevention is better than having to fix it. Now, can you prevent everything? No, that’s just life. But what can you prevent in doing, again, these small changes? And so when I look at prehab, I kind of put it into a handful of categories. I put it into range of motion, and that has to do with really looking at your joints and the range of motion that they have. Um, flexibility, which this is riders and horses, but flexibility is important because when a muscle is tight, it is going to pull on a joint, which is going to add stress to that joint. Muscle strength and symmetry is also important. So knowing where our horses are weak versus where they’re really using and engaging from. We don’t want an overdeveloped neck that’s inverted that isn’t a nice strong top line. So looking at our horse and then symmetry is so important and can give you a lot of information, because if you see a muscle is getting overdeveloped on one side of them, that should be a red flag to you that there’s some sort of imbalance in your horse. Another piece is coordination and proprioception. Coordination for a lot of horses, this is something we often work on under saddle, but you can also work on it through balance pads and different types of exercises on the ground. and all of that leads into, if you know of any pre-existing issues, so that goes back to like your horse that had the SI scar tissue, so if you know there’s something that was already there, okay, know that, that’s information, and then create a system that’s going to help them with that. So it could be anything from strategic stretches that you’re going to do on the ground. I actually love stretching my horse after I ride them. You really want to try to do it with warm muscles versus cold. And I, you know, the horses get into a routine with me that they know, um, after I ride, I’m like, I’m just going to stretch out their legs and their neck. And they’re generally pretty tired and like, yeah, you know what, this sounds good right now. Um, and, uh, it’s, it’s enjoyable for both of us. Um, another piece is, uh, I love like when you’re under saddle really thinking about. your warm up and your cool down. I think because we’re all and myself included are pressed for time. It could be that we aren’t spending the time to really let our horse walk and warm up and then walk and cool down. And those don’t have to be, you know, loose reins, not paying attention. You can start on your lateral work. You can start on, you know, getting a bend through their neck, but really letting their body warm up and cool down. I love adding in any kind of hill work. that you can and I know that depends geographically where you’re at but even the smallest incline and decline I mean you know from going upstairs like that burns a whole new area or if you’ve ever ridden a bike up a hill um so that’s a great one as well transitions when you’re riding fabulous. Um, and I can even put myself in this category where I kind of just like cantering along and it’s so lovely. And it’s like, Nope, let’s do a transition. Good. Keep them up now back to a canner, like transitions when they’re done correctly are a great way to build muscle and, um, interval training as well. Uh, just like we do as humans. And this is something that we actually do a lot of times in rehab with our water treadmill and our dry treadmill. but using the different variables to change up their routine. So don’t just walk, track, canter, walk, track, canter both ways. Like that’s so boring and you’re going to build the same muscles every time. So if you can add in pole work, um, maybe raise cavaletties. Another one that’s really cool is changing your surface. So can you go from sand to grass? Grass makes them work and balance a lot differently than they do in sand. And so it is going to work different muscles and it’s also going to maybe make them pay attention or their legs are, you know, differently than they would in just flat sand. or changing from a synthetic footing to grass or vice versa, because at a show you’re going to be on synthetic footing possibly. So I want to make sure I’m working them on that. I also really enjoy in rehab bringing in stability bands. So specifically, we use the EquiCore system, and it’s something that horses really become open to using. You would think of an exercise band behind their bottom or under their obliques and abdominals would be jarring to them, but they’re used not tightly. It’s more for them to become aware, and you can use kinesiology taping in the same way. but just that idea of touch and how touch brings awareness. And so if we’re needing them to engage an area that’s weak, bringing awareness to that area could be the difference. And so these, again, maybe it’s keeping a record or some kind of journal of what you’re doing, but adding in these other exercises will not only be engaging for your horse, but also for you. And for me, I like to keep things exciting. I think that’s my personality. And so I really love changing up these different dynamics because it keeps me engaged because my flatwork, my horse knows how to jump. When we jump in lessons, it’s maybe for practice for a show or something I need to practice on and because it’s fun. But I know that the really core of what my horse needs is flatwork. And so how am I going to do that so that we both stay engaged and happy with it? And fitness, not only the fitness to do, you know, to jump or to do the dressage test or to do reining or whatever you’re doing, but that endurance fitness is also very, very important.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]So a lot of us, we tend to want to move things along at a bit of a speed that’s convenient for us, maybe not necessarily convenient for the horse. And I’m not judging anyone. I’m not calling anyone out, anything like that. I’m just recognizing that many of us, we’re human beings. We have goals. We tend to think about ourselves a little bit. So when you’re rushing things along, when you might be doing things the wrong way, like I had mentioned before, if you’re hot walking your horse and it’s got its head in the air and it’s all of the things, it could lead to injury reoccurrence. It could lead to muscle imbalance. It could lead to more time off. All of, you know, we could go on and on. What are some ways that people may be rehabbing or prehab, like conditioning their horse incorrectly?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]That’s a great question. Again, that really is variable, you know, based on the person and the horse. And it isn’t uncommon because I think You know, patience is a virtue and it’s, it’s hard to do for all of us. And so. It’s hard for me to say exactly what they could be doing. Um, two things that I brought up that I would just reiterate are the warmup and cool down. So really taking your time, even if this is when you’re. rehabbing. And a lot of times we end up working the horse on the ground at a walk and a trot. And oftentimes it’s not on a lunch line. So we’re running around with them. And so just knowing that that don’t look at rehab time as wasted time. If you change your perception that this is This is a forced time, you know, pause, and this horse and I are going to use it to the best of our abilities. Maybe get yourself fixed up. If you’ve got something that’s been bothering you. Okay. Go do it. You know, go, go get your back looked at, or, you know, go work with, you know, uh, you know, PT or maybe, you know, you need to strengthen an area. So use it for yourself, but also for the horse. Knowing that this isn’t wasted time. It’s actually time that you could take. to fix issues that you maybe knew were there or didn’t know were there. And this horse can come back stronger. And to me, that’s empowering. So it’s all about your perception of what this time is going to be. If you’ve already decided that this stinks and you really don’t want to do it, maybe sending your horse away to a rehab center is a good idea because you’re not into it. And the people rehabbing him are going to be like, I get so much fulfillment seeing horses go back to their jobs and knowing that our little day to day stuff did it. And it is tedious and monotonous, and that is OK. And so really looking at how you’re going to use the time because the horse is also going to interpret that and you want rehabbing to be their job you need to take that on too and then the fitness piece is also what I want people to look at because we do a lot of times go back under saddle, in my opinion, um, faster than we should. And sometimes that’s, that’s not a necessity because of the way the barn is set up or the how the horses, you know, you just, it’s easier to get on them under saddle, but just remember when you add a rider on, you’re adding their weight and their imbalances. And so if there’s any way to bring the horse back first, where you can improve their fitness and their muscle symmetry and their strength prior to adding a rider, that in my mind would be ideal. And that, again, would depend on the facility and what’s available to them.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Let’s say a horse has an injury or chronic pain, it could be anything. The owner does all the right things, gets help from professionals, and the horse is now healthy and sound. It’s been deemed good to go back to whatever discipline they’re in. But the owner is now hesitant to do things with the horse again in fear of hurting them. What’s your advice to help owners or riders, whether it’s getting back in the saddle or just doing stuff with their horse again that’s outside of the rehab plan.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]We see this a lot when we send horses home. It’s a celebration for us. And I think for the owner, it is so exciting. And then they have a lot of hesitation because they’re like, I just don’t want them to get injured again. Like, can I bubble wrap them? You know, it’s like we all wish we could. Oftentimes, if I have an owner that is feeling really scared, worried, just has a lot of hesitation, this is where I think you bring a professional in. Do you have a trainer or someone that’s a professional rider that A, doesn’t have the baggage around it, B, has the knowledge of how to either start that horse back under saddle or work that horse properly. So my suggestion is always support. Because most of the time, if you have rehabbed correctly, it’s a mental thing in us. We’re just scared that they’re going to get hurt again. And that’s fair. It is a reality, right? But if you have done all the pieces we’ve been talking about where you have rehabbed them the right way, they’re coming back stronger, and you still have that fear, rely and go to people that do this as a profession. And those are the people that I think are going to get you over that hump. Most of the time we don’t do the rehab riding in our facility. Based on the horse and the owner, sometimes we do. It just depends on, it’s very specific to the horse. And sometimes not having that personal pain and connection to them and a little bit of callousness is a good thing because you’re not going to take every misstep and you know her like that something’s going to happen you just have a different feel. and the horses can feel that and their job, like they’re not going, as long as they understand this and expectations are clear, they’re not going to rush it or feel like every step is scary. And that’s where again getting that help could be important because it could be as short as a couple rides and you see the horses going fine to them working with you maybe in your lessons and that kind of stuff but I think that’s where you turn to the professionals in our industry to help you get comfortable with it again because I’ve seen where owners have had this hesitation. They get the right person on their team. Again, the, the, you know, whole team for this horse. And then I’m not like my heart explodes when I see them send me a picture and they’re at their first like dressage test. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, here they are. Or like we go and watch, you know, our polo horse that had a spiral fracture do his first polo game. And he, we didn’t know if he was going to even live. And that is why we’re fixing them, because they want to do their job again. And you have to have the belief that it was and the knowledge that it was done right. And then go forward with it, even if that means you need help with it.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Yeah, that’s really good advice. So you have some paid and some free massage tutorial videos on your website. How important is it for horse owners to learn how to take care of their horses in between professional visits, or if there’s a lack of professional body workers in their area?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Well, I mean, I’m a massage therapist, so I think immensely important, but I also think it is a great way for you to connect with your horse and have more information on your horse. And so I also feel like people can get overwhelmed that they don’t know the muscles names. I always hear, am I going to hurt them? And, um, you don’t need to know the muscles. It’d be good for you to know, but as long as you have knowledge of how to work the muscle and understand that You’re most likely not going to press too hard. And if you do, the horse is going to tell you they’re going to move away. They’re going to look at you. Like, why are you pushing on me like that? So again, they’re going to tell you, don’t worry about that. And for me, I really like teaching owners how to work with their horse in sections. So that way you don’t feel like, okay, I have to devote whole hour to massaging my horse. Because we don’t, we won’t have time for it. And then we won’t do it. So what if you did it in 10 minute intervals, maybe 15 minute intervals. And so in my videos, uh, I had people that were wanting, you know, our visual learners and I, in my videos, I’m working on a horse. I also think. Being able to educate with enough information, but not overwhelming you is important as well. And giving really tangible things that you can do. Um, and so for me, I love to break it up to where there’s the neck, there’s the shoulder, there’s the back and ribs, there’s their hind end. And then there’s everything up on their head. Um, and this is like their pole, their TMJ, their masseters with their cheeks. Um, and so if you break it up into these areas, it’s actually how I work on my own horses. I very seldomly, because I’m working all the time massaging other horses, have the time to massage my own. And so I will be like, oh, after my lesson, you know what? I’m just going to work on their shoulder today. I want to do their shoulders. And you want to make sure you do both sides. And it can be this just small piece that you add in. And I guarantee you, you’re not going to be upset that you did it. Like it’s always enjoyable because I really like to think of it as it is very seldom that we are giving to the horse without expecting anything in return. And that to me, anytime I can give to the horse and say to them, I’m doing this just for you, I think is a good moment. And so if you look at it that way, you’re gonna, you’re gonna be like, I want to do this for my horse. And once you know how to do it, and I mean, these videos pop up on your phone, like have them right there, press pause, do it. And the more you do it, the more you’re going to get comfortable with it. And, you know, for me there, yes, I have three ones out there that are on YouTube or on my website that are great. And then to go a little bit more in depth or to get an actual flow of those five areas. Those are the ones that I made at a really low price point just to cover the production of them, because to me, it’s not a moneymaker. It’s a giving back that the horse community and owners can use, because ultimately I’m not going to become a millionaire massaging and rehabbing horses. We don’t do it for that. We do it because we want horses to feel better. And that gives me joy. So if owners can do that themselves, because I cannot massage every horse, that I think is the bigger picture.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]It’s such a nice bonding experience to have with your horse as well. I know my gelding, like he won’t leave the cross ties after a ride until he’s like had some sort of like a stretch. Like he’s like, excuse me.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Hello. My time right now. Oh, yeah. Like once I laugh because I use a certain liniment with my horses when I massage them and I call it like my signature scent. And once horses who know me and I’m in and they smell it, they’re like, um, hello. Get in here, it’s my turn. You know, I have to like look at them like, you’re not on the list today, talk to your mom, you don’t know what to tell your parents. But yeah, they definitely appreciate it, understand it. And I think like a little bit of giving back to them exponentially fills them. So, you know, if you’re, I think most of us are in this cause we really love horses and this is a fun, easy way to be able to do that.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Absolutely. So we have questions that we ask every podcast guest. And so there’s four of them. I’ll go through them. Starting with number one, do you have a motto or a favorite saying?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]That’s a good one. You used one of my favorite ones, which is horse related, which is muscles never lie. But when we were getting into this whole portion of rehab with horses, the word that like kept coming up was the comeback. And there was a quote that just like stuck with me, I think, because it hit me personally, and then applied to it. And it goes, it’s, I’m thankful for all of it, the highs, the lows, the blessings, the lessons, the setbacks, the comebacks, everything. And to me, that just like hits me at a place of gratitude because without the lows, we wouldn’t understand how great the highs are. And even though with your horse, this is a setback, just wait for this comeback. It’s going to be amazing. And that I love because it’s just so applicable.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]I love that. I’m going to apply that to my mare. She’s this badass, excuse my language, black, beautiful mare. I’ve grown her mane out, and it’s knotted and everything. But it makes her look even cooler.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]She’s just like, doesn’t survive.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Rather than always being like, oh, soda. Instead, I’m going to be like, man, wait for this comeback, though. I love that. And you bring a different energy to your horse. Rather than feeling sad for them or pitiful or something like that, putting pity on them. Because how does it feel if somebody comes up to you and they’re like, sorry.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]You look really tired.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Or being like, man, this isn’t your time right now, but I have a feeling it is coming. Just wait.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]You know, like it just… Well, and who doesn’t love a comeback story? Absolutely. And so, like, I also encourage owners, like, when you look back on this time in five years, how do you want to remember it? And I think you want to remember it as like this was my horse’s comeback. This was our comeback. And it does like it changes your whole feel on it.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]I love that.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Absolutely love that.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]The second one is who has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]This one’s actually hard for me because there’s been so many. And so I actually feel Like, I want to talk more about, cause like it’s easy to look at like some professional riders and just be like, Oh, busy Madden. You’re so right. You know, like fan girl it a little bit, but I wanted to go more to influential people and the characteristics they have, because what I’m seeing is I love learning from people that have a deep passion for the sport. And the passion comes from. their love of horses, their willingness and wanting to learn more about them, and then embracing the uniqueness of each one. And there was an amazing trainer in the Chicagoland area that recently passed away. Her name is Nancy Whitehead. And I had the pleasure of getting to know Nancy through my trainer, Nick Novak. And Nancy had a way of looking at horses and seeing, even if it was this horse that everyone else just was like, what? How can you, how are you going to work with this horse? You know, and her seeing like, no, let me just understand its, its language. Let me understand its uniqueness. And she would make the most fantastic horses out of what someone else would say like this horse isn’t rideable won’t become anything and so it’s really seeing these professionals that aren’t just in it for the money and to sell horses and to jump big jumps and win medals but these trainers and professionals and riders that are wanting to really love and understand horses and I’m seeing and working with more and more of those types of trainers and it makes me immensely happy.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Yeah, I hope that we all get to build a, you know, a circle around us with people like that. That’s, that’s a really special quality. If you could give equestrians one piece of advice, what would it be?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Um, I think we covered it a little bit, but I really just through my experience, believe that that idea that the right horses come into your life at the right time. And when I step back from my goals and, you know, showing schedule and what I want to like achieve in my writing. And, you know, sometimes it’s really frustrating because you’re not where you thought you should be. I’m like, how can I be, you know, this age and still learning this, you know, but when I step back from all of that and I just get back to. why I ride horses, it is this feeling that like they have been there for me when no one else could provide what they do. And by allowing the right horses to find me or to come into my life and not dictating it by what I think I need. And this has been in life. But for me, I kind of look at it as this belief of just like having my hands open. and just being open and not forcing or coming from a mindset of scarcity, but this belief that there is enough and the right things will come into my life. And this has been in my business, in my career, in my family. But just this idea that this is here, this horse is here, and what are we going to learn from each other? And when I do that, I feel so much more accomplished anyways. than getting a ribbon. And so that is just that belief that be open minded and open to what horses are meant to be in your life.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]I’m just going to let myself absorb that.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]I love it like with you know one of my very dear horse friends, my friend Kate, it’s like we’ll laugh when she’s like okay so this horse is just a mirror of me and everything I didn’t want to look at about myself she’s just glaringly showing me and I’m like oh it’s so fun, right? You kind of sometimes are like, oh, what did I do?</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]You’re cringing, but you’re like, but I’m going to grow from this. I will be better for this.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]You are. And so just believing that, and it really does, it fulfills you in ways that ribbons can’t.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Absolutely. The last question of this is, please complete this sentence. For me, horses are?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]My passion and my heart.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Is there anything else you’d like to add for our listeners based on what we’ve discussed?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Really, I’d love to just finish up with rehab the right way. Take care of your horse. as well as you can, as often as you can. And just know that as long as you are doing the best you can with the information you have, the abilities you have, what’s available to you, you’re doing enough because you’re even trying and the horse will always appreciate it. And that in and of itself, like you, you can’t go wrong. That’s such a</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Great way to wrap this up. Thank you. I’m just again like I’m just absorbing all this. I feel like so many of the questions I’m like, well, this is kind of my question, but I think it applies to other people</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Questions we all have, and I couldn’t have told you two decades ago that I knew the answers to this, but it was because of the horses that were in my life that, and my own life, that’s led me to learn more. And so that, like sometimes I feel bad that Gigi couldn’t have gotten the care that I give now, but I wouldn’t have learned all of this without Gigi. So I did the best I could with what I had. And for me, just knowing that there are resources like Unbridled Equine for people to go to, I’m always happy. I get emails, phone calls, messages through social media where people are just looking for somebody as a resource. And then they’re really surprised when I respond or I’m talking to them on the phone and I’m like, guys, it’s just me. This is a small show over here, don’t worry. But just a fellow person to talk to about it and be a resource for them is what I want the Unbridled brand to represent.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]So where can people find you and how can they connect with you?</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Definitely, so you can always go to our website, unbridled-equine.com. There’s lots of information on there. It’s broken up into sections, massage, MagnaWave, rehab and performance, and then education. The videos that we spoke about are under the education piece, and it’s pretty exciting. That’s an area, an avenue that we’re gonna be growing. So definitely keep your eyes peeled for that. You can find us on social media. We are on Instagram and Facebook. We are starting TikTok, but man, All these platforms, it really is like a full-breakthrough.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Absolutely.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]Just not that creative, but I travel. Horses are hilarious. And we’ve had some really great rehab horses that have just been so funny to have on video and pictures. And then you can also find the free videos and other videos on YouTube as well. But please just reach out. Oftentimes I’m giving people my cell phone number and I’m just like, shoot me a text, send me a video of what you’re questioning. And then I get back to it when I can. And I really enjoy that connection piece. And so we’re very available, very willing to help. And the more we do that, especially with consulting with people on rehab, we’re seeing that that’s a time in someone’s horse experience and horse life that they’re needing support. So we love to be that person for them.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]I’ll put all the links to your social media here in the show notes and then also on your website as well. So everybody can access that. But Katie, I can’t thank you enough for joining me today, for discussing all the things rehab, prehab and everything in between. I think this is a really, I know this has been a great episode for me to be a part of. But I think, yeah, I think it’ll be a really good episode for all of our listeners as well. So thank you so much.</p><p>[SPEAKER 1]I hope so. You’re so welcome. Thank you.</p><p>[SPEAKER 2]Thank you for listening to this episode of the Equestrian Connection Podcast by wehorse. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a rating and review, as well as share us on social media. You can find us on Instagram at wehorse underscore USA, and check out our free seven-day trial on wehorse.com, where you can access over 175 courses with top trainers from around the world in a variety of topics and disciplines. Until next time, be kind to yourself, your horses, and others</p>