#51 Empowering Horse Owners with Jenn Savage

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:00:02-00:00:11]
On this episode, we're talking with Jenn Savage, an equine body worker who is dedicated to improving equine performance as well as educating and empowering horse owners.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah, so I want strong, happy, cared for horses. I don't care what they're doing. I just want them to all be physically well, mentally well, cared for, moving.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:00:25-00:01:11]
Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from Wehorse. My name is Danielle Crowell and I'm your host. Jenn Savage is an equine bodyworker and educator with the mission to help educate and empower horse owners who want what's best for their horses above all else. She believes in the importance of giving back as much as we can to our equine athletes, especially when we ask big jobs of them. So she's on a mission to empower others with knowledge and resources to help prehab their horse while training like a savage. Ready to get started? Let's dive in. Jenn, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here. As I was saying earlier, I have been following you for a while and I'm just really excited to introduce you to our audience and get more people into the savage community. So welcome.

[SPEAKER 2]
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I am so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Going back to the beginning, it's where I always like to start. What brought you to horses and what were your first few years like as an equestrian?

[SPEAKER 2]
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So when I was seven, my aunt had horses at her house and decided that it would be a good idea to have me trade labor for lessons. So I did at like seven years old, eight years old, I was doing cleaning stalls, grooming her horses. And at the end, I would get a little lesson on a lunge line. She would have me um, do supervised grooming sessions and things like that. So I knew what I was doing and learned about horses along the way. And it got to the point after that few years later that it was like, okay, well you need some real lessons now. Like you're ready to start, um, move out on your own. And I found a lesson barn to take lessons out and went from there.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Nice. Yeah. I love the idea of starting off with the responsibility first. That's how I started too. It was like I was leasing a pony and in order for us to afford the lease payment, I worked off some of that. So it was like, let's say it was X amount of money per month. I did certain stalls every day and that allowed us to pay less money. And it just instills Like, the dedication that's required, because you can show up and you can ride, but it's like, if you really want to get into horses, like, you have to have all of the other parts as well. So, I love that. I love that you started, like, with the labor for the lessons.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:02:47-00:03:12]
That's a good beginning. Absolutely, yeah. Until I was... Actually, after college and a few years after college, I worked so that my horse could stay somewhere. Like I had two regular jobs in college and I also worked at the barn to pay his board on top of that. So, I mean, I guess it was less of a struggle at that point because I knew, OK, if I'm riding horses, I'm working for it. Yeah. Since I was seven.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I know. I'm always like, do you know what I do for you to my horse? Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
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No. True lady.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Exactly. Okay, so you were taking lessons, you were riding. How did you get to body work? Like, like, was there something that happened? Was there? Did you meet a body worker? How did you find your way into this realm?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:03:38-00:04:59]
So it wasn't until many years later, I have been with horses, riding, working with horses, working for horse people since I started. And I don't think I was exposed to a body worker. And like I said, I've told people before, I don't know if it was just the tax bracket was different. And maybe like I'm sure it was happening. People had body workers. I was never exposed to them until now. I just I by chance met a boarder at a barn that I was working at and she was a body worker and she was also a licensed massage therapist for humans. And she became my my massage lady. And I ended up having her out for my own horse and he didn't have anything wrong with him. A lot of body workers get into it for their own horses. I don't really have a tragic story. I just wanted my horse to feel good. And I had her out and he felt awesome the next time that I rode. And I didn't stop doing it, didn't stop looking into it, and it just became this little worm in my head that was like, hey, don't forget about this. And then I just, yeah, when it came time to decide what I really wanted to do because I didn't want to do what I went to college for, I was like, well, what if I just started a business? Love that. And I ran with it, yeah. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]
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I I'm I'm in the same boat as you that it was like two decades into horses, like being a horse girl that I had my first body work with my horse. Like it was one of those things where it was it wasn't something that I was ever exposed to. Yeah. And now, like, my horses have a massage therapist. They have a chiropractor. They have an osteopath. Like, they have everything. And it's really become this really front and center aspect of the industry that... at least I hope, and maybe it's just like the bubble that I'm in, that I'm very much exposed to body work. And it's like, it's, you just, you just have a body worker for your horse. I'm sure that's not the experience for everybody. But I completely agree that it's, it's definitely a shift that's happened within the industry that now body work is very much, you know, just something that's spoken about, which is good to see.

[SPEAKER 2]
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I think that it's becoming something that as a lot of the pros that learned from the big names that we grew up hearing, right? Like a lot of the pros that grew up under those people are now have learned their own practices and are employing things like body workers and chiropractors and things like that. And realizing that it just, it only enhances their performance and recovery. And even when they get injuries, they're recovering faster. So I think it's becoming more normal is why we're seeing it.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Okay.

[SPEAKER 1]
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So signs that a horse needs body work, whether they are an athlete, whether they are retired, like if you were to just look at the average horse, what are some signs that a horse might need some body work?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:07:01-00:09:12]
They have a pulse. Okay. No, but really, yes, seriously, though, they have a pulse. Like a lot of people are like, well, my horse doesn't do this, or they don't do that, or they don't do that anymore, or they're not working hard enough for it. And I'm like, no, I promise you, like, Go lay on a couch and don't leave your house, you know, whatever. Go on your walks, but don't do anything, quote unquote, right? And if you got body work, I guarantee you'd still feel better. So there's a lot of things that I talk about with clients. I just recently did a clinic and we were talking about observation and People don't think about things that are normal for their own horse because they see it every day. But things like your horse doesn't stand square, right? If your horse isn't standing square, it's got its front legs too far apart or too close together. They just kind of like come in at a little triangle from the shoulder, right? Your horse is always resting a certain leg in the back. Or your horse has a personality quirk that's not really a personality quirk. It's more like they're working under conditions where they're in pain. So I think as far as. When I see horses the most that just all of a sudden they decide they need a body worker, it's a situation where something's changed. So they suddenly have a horse that is bucking or they suddenly have a horse that doesn't want to go over jumps or when it comes off jumps, it's going away and quote unquote playing on the back end. And I'm like, OK, well, it's not playing. There's something wrong. So if there's changes, then definitely have a body worker out. Even changes with farriers. Your horse is going barefoot now. Let's have a body worker out. Your horse suddenly has shoes or has fine shoes or their shoe type changed. Let's have a body worker out. Yeah. Anything, any, any changes in their bodies, especially to their feet or any changes in their behavior, something's going on in their body.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:09:12-00:12:06]
Yeah. Yeah. Love that. I quick, a quick little anecdote. I just, I found this really interesting. So my mayor, she had an SI injury and it's been something that we've been rehabbing for the past few years. And when we were at like the peak of it, like when we were still trying to figure out what was going on, she was really, really behavioral. Um, and I mean, with good reason, like she was like, you need to figure out like why my back is bothering me so much. And, um, so she was always bucking. She was always rearing, like just, we'd be leading her along and she would rear up. Um, like she was just really cranky all the time. And so many people were like, Oh, she's, that's just the way she is. She's a mayor. Um, But I could just sense that something was wrong. Right. So we ended up doing a ton of body work with her and eventually figuring out the issue and resetting her pelvis. Her pelvis was twisting. So we reset her pelvis and we've been rehabbing that for the past few years now. And so she's been doing so well. She's like, she's so kind. She's so like bubbly. She's got the funniest personality. I just love her. And that's a complete 360 from the horse that she was right. During like the, during the twisted pelvis. And so this past winter, um, Nothing had happened. She had the winter off. I mean, she hasn't been doing anything anyways, because we've been rehabbing. But like, there was nothing going on in the winter. I have my horses at home. And there was just something different. I just was like, geez, so it's been a little cranky lately. Like, I'm nothing that the like anybody else would really notice. But as the person that has every single touch point with my horses, I just was noticing there was just something slightly different about The way that she was acting, just a little cranky, a little bit more reactive. So I had my osteopath out and and she said, yeah, it kind of seems like she might have had a slip during the winter. Makes total sense. Mucky, icy, snowy. And I just thought, geez, if I hadn't been paying attention, that little teeny, teeny, tiny crankiness could have escalated into all of those big behaviors I had seen at one point. And instead, we addressed it. And right away, immediately, she went back to like, hey, guys, I'm cool. I'm chill now. And it's so fascinating. It's so fascinating to me. The the things that are so overlooked within our industry that can be so easily resolved and make happier horses and make happier humans if we just pay attention.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Anyway, exactly.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:12:07-00:12:33]
That's not really any good that I want to share. OK, so speaking of which, I'm going to read something from your Web site. You say, I want to know everything about my client's horses, from their current performance to the behavior with the farrier. I'm nosy as hell, and for good reason. All the little things add up. So can you explain a bit about that?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:12:33-00:15:00]
Yeah, so kind of exactly what you are talking about and what I was just mentioning about observation. I want my owners to pay attention. I want my owners to know what's going on. It's very easy to... When you're in a boarding situation, as most of my clients are, I'm not in a in a big area with a ton of land that, you know, a lot of people have their horses on their own property. So most people are boarding or their competition horses that they keep with their trainer. Right. So. They're not involved in day to day things with their horses. They trust their trainers and barn owners to know what's going on with their horse. And they trust that if they show up to ride their horse, it's going to be the same horse every day. And it is what it is. And any like, quote unquote, quirks are personality things. Right. So especially when you buy a horse that has personality. supposed quirks, right? Is we're told, oh, the horse just does this. Or, oh, the horse just always lands on this lead. Or, oh, the horse doesn't like to do so many left turns when they're doing barrels. So things like that, I need people to just Pay attention to everything. I want people to know everything, notice everything. You can't tell me a farrier's name. Okay, we're going to find it out, and we're going to find out why are we doing our feet like this. Because I want you to understand, I want to understand, everybody needs to understand, right? I want to know everything because everything makes the picture, right? So if you tell me your horse is landing on the same lead every time, and it'll swap to the correct lead, but... it will always land on the right lead after a jump. Okay, what's happening over the jump? What's happening before the jump? What does their care look like with their chiropractor? Do we have an issue with any of the feet? Well, I'm asking people and they don't necessarily know. Oh, I'll find out for you. Or, oh, I'll notice how a horse is standing in a session. And I say, hey, you know, have you noticed they're always resting their left hind? No, but I'll have to pay attention to that. And I'm not ever judging my owners. It is one of those things where we know our horses, we see our horses every day and these things are normal to us. And I'm coming in as an outsider with fresh eyes and I'm like, okay, well, this is going on, this is going on, this is going on. And let's talk about your farrier. Let's talk about your vet. What are they finding? And what is it pointing to as a whole picture?

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
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And it's, I don't think... I'm not frustrated with owners, right? I'm frustrated with the situation, how it's gotten that all of these things are normal to us and we're not thinking about it, but we're not taught to think about it when we're coming up in riding. Or even the adult amateurs, they start riding when they're in their 20s or 30s, right? They're not taught to pay attention to these things necessarily. So a lot of what I end up doing is... observation and teaching people what they're looking for and what we might want to do about it and making sure that we have cohesive wellness teams that are working together, like what you're talking about with your horse. You have a chiropractor, osteopath, you have your farrier, you have your vets, you have everybody, right? I want everybody to know what's going on with the other person.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:15:55-00:18:21]
Yeah, I think what you're saying, I know what you're saying is so important. And I'm a huge advocate for the amateur horse owner because I am one. And I know what it's felt like to be in that boarding situation where nobody communicates with you. I know what it feels like to be in the situation with a trainer that is like, I'll just take care of it. You don't need to know. And I know what it's like to have my horses at home now and to be the one that has every single touch point and like relies on everybody communicating with everybody. And it's I'm I'm just I'm really done with the the secrecy and like the gatekeeping. So. I had a farrier that I was working with for quite a few years, and I would always ask why questions. Well, why? Like, why is he doing this? Like, why is this happening? Why do you think he does that? And the answer was always, oh, you know, like, it doesn't, it just is. It doesn't, it doesn't really matter. Like, and it was always like, yeah, but... As a horse's owner, I'm asking you to share this information with me because I don't know. I don't have any hoof. I only have so much hoof knowledge. So I'm asking you. And the idea of keeping that from owners, I'm really, really over it. Um, it's something that I don't find fair, um, because we're just, we're trying to do what's best for our horses. And I just, I feel like I'm, I'm going on, I'm on, I'm ran today. I'm just, I'm really, um, it's, it's something that is, um, it's not okay. And I think that communication is so important. I think that, um, the owners, like you had said, um, The owners need to need to also be willing to observe. We can't just rely on our professionals to know everything about our horses. They obviously have a ton of other clients. And I think that there's so many moving parts here. But I just I just want to advocate for the for the horse owners that the amateur horse owners that like we need to be OK with asking why and questioning that and seeking those answers.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:18:22-00:20:42]
I personally, I actually get upset with my clients for apologizing when they ask me or like if they ask me a question that I'm so sorry, I just don't know. I know you don't know. And all I want to do is make sure that you do know. And so ask me all the questions. I don't care. I don't care if I'm working on your horse while you're asking me questions if you're there or if you call me later after a session if you can't be there. I do work on a lot of horses alone by myself or with their trainer present only just because of the time of day I'm usually working. But I want my owners to ask me questions because I don't want there to be confusion and I don't want – an owner not to know or not to feel empowered in what they're talking about with their horse or validated with what they're feeling because a lot of times i have situations where owners are like well i feel like maybe this is happening with their front you know usually they're reaching more with the front left and i feel like it's a little bit shorter but i don't know if i'm crazy And so based on what I feel, I'm like, okay, well, this is what's going on in their bodies, and this is how that could be related. And it's validating for a lot of owners when I'm communicating and explaining things to them because they're like, oh, wow, I'm not crazy then. And then they feel more empowered to respond. trust their gut because a lot of people are... It's like we've gotten to a point where I don't feel like a lot of adult amateurs, at least the ones that are in boarding situations. Once people are out of that, they seem to... feel like they trust themselves and the situation better. But when you're in boarding situations, I find a lot of times that we're relying so much on so many other people to know what they're doing that we're not relying on ourselves to know what we're feeling or seeing. Right. Or you ask somebody, you bring it up and they're like, oh, no, that's normal. And I'm like, but it feels different. OK, well, then trust that and run with it and advocate for your horse. I really don't care if everybody tells you they're crazy, tells me that you're crazy. I'll be here for you. I'll help you. I'll help you. And we can find people that aren't going to think you're crazy and we can investigate what's going on. And multiple times that's happened where it's okay. Well, everybody's saying the horse is just like that, but are they, they weren't just like that.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:20:43-00:21:30]
Yeah. I, I love this so much. I love your mission of like empowering the horse owner and educating the horse owner. Because that's like, The more empowered and the more educated that horse owners are, the more empowered that they are and the more that they're able to really to help the horse, the more that they're able to say, hey, you know what? I'm going to call my saddle fitter out because something seems a little weird here. Or in my case, hey, my mare's kind of, she just seems off. There's not any red flags. She physically is moving fine. There's just something that just seems off. So I'm just going to call my osteopath. Years ago, I would have been like, I don't know, she's fine. Being cranky, I guess. Right.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:21:30-00:21:32]
You know, like we're back to being a bad attitude.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:21:32-00:22:03]
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It just would have been dismissed. And, you know, I just I love this so much. And so you have online courses as well. So you you physically go and do hands on body work for horses and clients. And then you also have online courses and resources. Can you talk to us a little bit about that as to what inspired you to create them? And how you find that that's ultimately helping the bodywork industry or if it is.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:22:05-00:23:57]
So, OK, yes, my clients needed things and I figured if my clients needed them, then more people needed them that way. You know, and like kind of circling back to people trusting their guts and wanting to find out what's going on with their horses. Right. That if nobody's trusting them, but they feel like something's wrong now, they can try and see, well, can I help the situation a little bit by doing this? Right. And find out on their own. if they, I have a lot of people that have told me, well, there's not a body worker in my area or there's not a body worker that services my area anymore. And I can't trailer my horse every time to wherever they are. Right. Or they don't compete. So they don't see body workers in different areas. Like I go to shows for horses routinely and a lot of people don't do that. So being able to hop your own horse, um, And like I said, my clients needed it. I figured other people needed it. And it turns out that's true. And again, with the relying on horse trainers and things like that, barn owners, to know things about your own horse or know just even what's best for so many different types of horses, right? Like horses aren't all the same. And I think a lot of trainers, they have a style and it doesn't necessarily work for every horse. Right. But is every rider going to remove their horse from a situation? Probably not. So having other tools to draw upon other than your trainer, like for things like my warm up guide or groundwork guide, having other tools that you can use outside of your trainer is so important for horse owners. Because then you can you can work on things on your own and you can see how your horse is handling it and see how they improve or what you need to work on based on what you're finding on your own at that point.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:23:60-00:25:10]
I think, too, it's it's also helpful just like from. you know, some of the, the body work and, and hands-on perspective too, that, you know, if, if something happens, a lot of, a lot of body workers are booked up in advance for good reason, you know? And so it's like, you might say, Hey, um, my horse is doing this. Like, can you come out and do some work? And the answer might be, yeah, I'll, I'll see you in six weeks. Um, you know, and it's like, good. Like it's, it's so good to see these professionals being so booked up. Like, like that's a good thing um and like from the horse owner's perspective it might kind of be like oh but like oh i just want to i just need something right now you know and so it's helpful to then be able to say okay well i'm going to do some of these things here's i'm going to book you i'll see you in six weeks um and in the meantime here's some of the things that i'm going to be able to do um that may help to alleviate the situation is do you agree with that or are you kind of like you know what just just wait for somebody to come in six weeks So I am happy to have people do what they can in the meantime.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:25:10-00:26:07]
I think that being able, I don't want it to sound bad, right? But like, I'm a business owner. And so I think that people take advantage of the fact that they have access to the business, right? when they're working with a small business. So somebody is talking to the CEO, the manager, the HR, everything when they're talking to me. And I think that it gives people this idea that just, okay, well, I should give away XYZ information for free because I'm a business. Or, oh, well, I should be giving discounts because I'm a business owner and I need business, right? But I don't think people are... Going to Coca-Cola and being like, hey, you raised your prices on Coke this year and I don't think it's cool. Can you lower your price for me? Right.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:26:07-00:26:12]
Or can you just squeeze me in? I know your book, but like, can you just can you just squeeze me in?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:26:13-00:29:04]
So that that had that one has been hard for me to like. And that's part of it is that I. I was talking to another body worker and she said, well, last year I had 90 clients at this, you know, during this month last year. And I'm like, that's actually my nightmare. I don't, I, I want to help as many horses as possible, but not at the expense of myself. And I've gotten to the point, I'm still pretty young in my career, right? I started in 2021, but I, I am at a point in my life where I don't want to be feeling like I'm in a rat race, even if it's a rat race for myself. Right. Like, I'm not an entrepreneur because I want to be a part of hustle culture by any means. I am at a point where I want to do what's best for me, protect my peace, be aware of burnout for myself and change. still help my clients right so if I'm not able to see a client for six weeks or I have um the clinic that I did this past Sunday was with a barn that I see quarterly so I only see them four times a year and they I give them a lot of homework for them to do with their own horses and it got to the point where the barn owner was like hey would you want to do body work clinics for a the adult amateurs and the younger people here to give them things that they could work on outside of your sessions to help prolong. Right. Because I'm only seeing them quarterly. And so that's something that we did. That was the first time that I did a clinic like that. And I got paid to share my knowledge. That's what a business is. Right. You should. Yeah. And so like, I'm fine with doing homework. I do provide homework for clients that ask me for homework or there's things that their horse needs. And I just cross my fingers and toes and hope that they actually do it. Right. But otherwise, now I'm trying to build. A I guess a cash, a little tool toolbox that I can provide to my clients that. Hey, I can't see you every two weeks and you need to see my horse every two weeks. I can't make it happen financially. Okay, well, here, you can... Buy my massage course and do these things on your own. And that will prolong the sessions. And it will help you know exactly what I'm talking about with your horse or your horse fell in the pasture. I can't like you're talking about. I can't get out there for six weeks. Your horse fell. And that actually happened recently with multiple clients because of the mud. But if your body worker can't get out, well, now you can help your horse on your own. So that's exactly what I want. And then it just helps. It gives me the opportunity to help other horses vicariously through their owners, right? That I wouldn't be able to get hands on or I wouldn't be able to get hands on as often. And now the horses are still being helped in the meantime.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:29:06-00:31:14]
Do you want to learn how to stretch and soothe your horse anytime, anywhere? WeHorse has a variety of equine bodywork courses for you to help your horse relax and release, whether it's between appointments with your professional bodyworker, after a hard ride, or if you'd simply like to learn how to help your horse ease any tension on your own anytime. Check out WeHorse.com to access over 175 online courses with top trainers and horse people from around the world. We have courses on everything from dressage to groundwork to show jumping to bodywork, including specific courses on equine massage, acupressure, the Masterson Method with Jim Masterson, T-Touch with Linda Tellington-Jones, equine biomechanics, and so much more. And as a member, you get access to everything in our WeHorse library to watch whenever you want. And we also have an app, which means you can download a course or video to watch without Wi-Fi. Perfect for those days at the barn when you want a quick dose of training inspiration before your ride or a reminder on how to do specific bodywork exercises with your horse. I know for me, I get out to the barn and I think, how do I do that again? So it's a great tool to literally have in your pocket. So what are you waiting for? Go to WeHorse.com and check out our free seven-day trial to access our WeHorse library and see if it's a good fit for you. We can't wait to see you in there. And now, back to the episode. What you're saying is so it's so important for horse owners to listen to this podcast and body workers listen to this podcast as well to be like, hey, burnout does not need to be such a thing. You know, it's it's just something I see a lot in body workers that they're just they're just so burnt out. And I think that what you had said is it. so true that, um, when people reach out, they're, they're talking to, like, like you said, like the CEO, the founder, the HR, the manager, the XYZ, um, you know, and, and it is, it's like, Hey, um, can you just quickly take a look? Here's a video of my horse. Can you just take a look and see? Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:31:17-00:31:19]
Oh no. The amount of times that happens.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:31:21-00:31:27]
Yeah. That, that burnout is real. Um, it's, it's so, so real.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:31:28-00:31:28]
I think for...

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:31:29-00:31:30]
I'm so sorry. No, no, keep going.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:31:31-00:32:43]
I think for body workers, too, especially, like, we... Even if you don't think of yourself this way, I know that it sounds like woo-woo or whatever people say, like, hippie kind of thing, right? But... It's a real thing that we are putting hands on multiple people's animals and transferring energy, like back and forth, right? And not just their energy, but everyone that handles them and everyone that rides them and all the energy of all the horses in the barn, they are feeding off of that energy. And I am somebody who... feels that deeply. And so I don't like to overload. I set a limit on how many horses I'll work on in a day. And it's not necessarily how many horses can my fingers handle touching in a day, but how many horses can my energy handle? How many horses do I have the mental capacity to handle? How many owners can I handle in a day? And how quickly can I and still be useful the next day. And I think that was where my business mentor and I, shameless plug, Krista Myers with the equine.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:32:44-00:32:45]
We love Krista.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:32:45-00:33:31]
Equestrian entrepreneur. So she was like, okay, well, what's your capacity? Give me a percentage. Do you feel with this number of clients, what percentage are you at? And for me, if I'm at 70% I'm not taking any more clients because I obviously need to shift a focus and work on something else. Like how can I help my clients help their horses without me having to be there more frequently? Or how can I help other people help their horses without me having to travel more or do X, Y, Z? Because I don't want to be burnt out because then I'm not helping anyone. If I show up to a session and I don't have the capacity for it, then I'm not really doing my job. And I don't want to be at that point.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:33:32-00:33:37]
Yeah. Such a good point. Such a good point. Okay.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:33:37-00:33:43]
We're going to talk a little bit about cults.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:33:44-00:34:14]
There's just kind of a joking comment that you're an aspiring cult leader. And so I want to talk about community within the horse industry. It's something that I feel like people either have or they don't have it. And I just... I have I felt the not having it. And it sucks. It really, really sucks. So how important do you think it is that people have a sense of community within whether it's online or locally?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:34:15-00:36:39]
Very. I, of course, it's a joke, right? Like, I'm not actually starting a cult. I don't know if that's illegal, but don't sue me. Yeah. I didn't have community growing up. I was actually the last barn that I ended up at before moving away for college. I was there for pretty formative years, from young teen years until I went away to college. And It was not a great environment for me. I didn't have a sense of community, even though I was on an IEA team. Well, it was similar to IEA, but I was on a riding team. I had teammates. I had barn mates. I was actively showing my horse, but I still didn't feel like I was part of something. And it was very much like I felt on the outside, even though I was – I'm the kind of person that I can always participate, right? Yeah. But I was not a part of a community by any means. And so not having that growing up, I don't want people to feel like that. And I think I still see that as witnessing a lot of different barns with adult amateurs. That's what I primarily work for is adult amateurs or their trainers. And so I still see a lot like that. people either have community or they don't. And when they do, the vibe is very different. Like you do feel more empowered and you do feel more confident to say things, to ask questions, to find it, like to get answers, to understand your own horse and not feel like a crazy person for doing it. Right. Like a lot of times I have clients who are on a, an endless mission to learn what's going on with their horse. Right. And, And the whole time their barn owners or their trainers are telling them, OK, calm down. It's just your horse. And I'm like, that's not a great feeling. Right. And then it causes our owners to feel like they can't trust themselves because now you feel crazy and you're basically being gaslit into thinking that nothing's wrong with your horse. And now you're like, OK, well, I guess I'm just a crazy adult amateur. Right. And then you're on some online forum and people are like, oh, well, I had this problem and nobody believed me and it turned out to be this. And you're like, yikes.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:36:41-00:36:41]
Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:36:42-00:37:10]
So I just it's important. It's important to feel like you belong somewhere. And I do feel like not every community is for every person. Like, sure, there was a community in the barn that I was a part of growing up. It was not my community. Right. It wasn't for me. The people weren't for me and I didn't feel included or accepted. And I don't. I ended up creating my own community before I found one that I fit in.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:37:10-00:37:43]
Hmm. What is your advice for people who may be feeling like may resonate with that and say, like, I don't really have a community. I'd love to have one. Like, what's your advice? And I mean, the beautiful thing now about like social media is that like you can have an online community like it doesn't they don't have to be at your barn. You can go to your barn and do your thing and then message, you know, your friends later. So what's your advice for people? Finding finding a sense of community within within the industry.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:37:44-00:39:19]
Be picky. It sucks. And I feel I feel like we get into a position, especially. I mean, not especially, I guess, because you do it when you're young and you do it when you're an adult amateur and you still feel lost without a community. Right. Like you try to become what that community is. wants or accepts. Right. Yeah. But that's not you. Okay. Let's go where you fit in. Let's go to people that feel like you. Right. And so I feel like it just has to be less about, like you said, where you are and more about who you are and what you want. Right. And who you are as a horse person. And there there are I mean, there are so many different like types of communities and types of people with communities. And I even as a businesswoman tried to. make myself be what I saw other body workers being in the industry and tried to have that kind of voice online for a long time. And I was like, this isn't fun. I don't want to post. I don't want to do anything. And Kristen was like, okay, let's not do that. Let's not put yourself in a box and you just take you to the table. Like you bring the table if you have to, but it's about you and you need to be out there. And as soon as I changed it to, OK, well, what do I want to talk about and how do I want to talk about it? All of a sudden I have people and I had a community and I was like, OK, so this is what it feels like. Right. Right.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:39:21-00:39:37]
I'm having, like, the best visual right now of, like, okay, if you don't have a seat at the table, like, bring, like, I'm just envisioning, like, this, like, pop-up card table. Like, just bring your own table. Just bring it, pop up your table for the legs and, like, be like, hey, who wants to come sit with me instead?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:39:37-00:39:38]
Exactly.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:39:38-00:39:57]
I love that. Okay, so if somebody wants to join your comp, What is your community about? Like, I know you're building this really, really great community for both the humans and the horses. What is your community about in case somebody wanted to join?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:39:58-00:41:03]
I would just say that it's horse centric. And if you want to just nonstop learn about horses and learn about different things going on with horses and things that I'm learning and providing to my clients or providing to people just like horse owners in general like I'm just bringing you guys things that I wanted right like things that you can do with your horse that I wish that I had done with my horse when he was younger and I was at this stage in his running career or whatever the case like I'm just bringing them things that tools that they can use right um and the vibe is a little bit unhinged um five is a little bit a little bit unhinged and this is probably the longest I've gone without saying a bad word um so So it's very by the seat of my pants, and it's more like if you're sitting in my living room, which I hope you're not because I don't have people over.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:41:03-00:41:05]
Right.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:41:07-00:41:29]
I send out an email, and it's me just word vomiting and hoping that it makes sense, and here's what I'm doing with my horse, and here's why, and try it on your horse and see how they feel about it type of thing. Or, hey, have you guys thought about this lately because – I think that everyone needs to think about it. And I've had a lot of clients who aren't thinking about it. And let's talk about it.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:41:30-00:42:39]
I'm a big fan of like the business that feels like a friend. I'm a big fan of that. Like when, like you said, you get an email and you're like, Jen emailed me. Like it's more so like, oh, my buddy Jen versus like, oh, okay, Savage Equestrian. I got an email from them. Right. It's just, there's a whole different vibe to it. And I really, really like it. I like that this, it's kind of more less like, corporate-y like stiff business and more personal brand um and I'm I really really like that kind of way that the industry like not just the horse industry but like business in general is kind of shifting to make things feel more personable um so I'm really into it and I like what you're doing I agree Okay, let's pivot a little bit and talk a little bit more about concrete, specific examples and things like that. So let's start at warm-up. What is the importance of a good warm-up?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:42:41-00:43:23]
Okay, so... I want to touch on something that I see far too often to preface this, right? Is that, okay, you tacked up your horse and you're at a boarding barn or even at home, right? You're not going to ride your horse in the barn. So you tacked up your horse. You're leaving wherever you tacked them up, walking them to the arena, getting on. And then what? We're going to walk a few laps, probably half of us on our phone or talking with another barn buddy that's riding with us. And then we're going to start trotting, maybe trot like two laps. And then we're going to canter and then probably hop over some jumps or do whatever you do. Dressage movements, barrel patterns, whatever your thing is.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:43:23-00:43:26]
So it's not discipline specific. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:43:27-00:45:22]
Right. So it's not. And I see it. I see it with all of them. Right. That we're going to like go in and we're going to walk a couple of laps. And it feels like we've been walking forever. Right. Because the arenas are big and our horse might be smaller, might not have a huge walk stride or we didn't ask them to walk longer. Like they mean that they're walking, right? They're dragging their toes. They're just moseying along and we're on the buckle. I mean, not that you should be walking with like a ton of contact in the beginning, but we're just free for all, right? We're just moseying around and we're probably not even paying attention half the time. And then we're going to get into it real quick. We're going to get into it and now we're going. And it's like, okay, but if we do it that way, our horses' joints aren't properly lubricated, even if they're in their prime, right? So you get to the point, they're either too young and we're going to have a problem, or they're in their prime and now we're causing a problem actively, or they're older, like once they're, what, 15, they're seniors, yeah? So after that point, now the problems are primed and ready to go, and we're just going to compound it, right? So we're not doing our joints a service. We're actively working against their muscles at that point because we're not warming them up properly and i don't care what you're going to do after you do your walk right but whatever it is your horse needs to be able to function properly and you're not asking them to if you're just walking a couple laps trotting a couple laps and then you're like really getting into work Yeah. There's a lot that needs to, I don't, whether you're running barrels or you're jumping a Grand Prix course, like there's a lot more that needs to happen before you get into whatever is going on.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:45:23-00:45:57]
And so would you recommend like, really finding that active walk rather than that mosey I once had somebody say your horse is walking like you're going to a funeral like just like avoiding it like no oh my god that's a great way to say it right but they don't want it they don't really want to go like right right like if you're doing your quote-unquote warm-up walk that's what you see a lot it's like a funeral procession out there yeah and that's such a good way to put it But yeah, so we need a good medium walk.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:45:58-00:47:17]
And if your horse is in their prime, 10 minutes, like I hate to break it to you. 10 minutes of walk. If your horse is in their prime, prime, like they are feeling their very best at this stage in their life. And they're just a great performer. They're a great horse, whatever. Right. 10 minutes. Hate to break it to you in perfect weather conditions. Right. So it better not be cold. Right. because that's harder on the joints and muscles, right? So I think a lot of people, too, think, well, I got my horse on the pasture, right? So they're fine. They're warmed up. Babe, have you ever looked at your horse in the pasture? They are inching along while they're grazing, right? Or it's wintertime and they're standing at a hay bale, right? Or even if you rolled out, I see a lot of people do their little cow rolls with the round bales and it's supposed to keep your horse moving but they're not constantly moving as they're sure they're covering ground but they're not constantly moving their legs your horse is not warmed up even if you got them from a field yeah so we need to we need to warm them up properly and that starts with 10 minutes of walk at a minimum to get everything functioning Now, I'm going to ask you a personal question here from...

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:47:18-00:47:53]
I usually do 10 minutes of hand walking before I get on. So I walk them as well. And then I walk when I'm on their back too. But for me, it's like, okay, I want you warmed up before I even sit on you. And then I'm going to get on you. And then we're going to now start walking again with me on you. And maybe I'm just like... I, I am, I think it's because of my horse's injury, but I'm like, I am, I'm doing everything possible here to make sure I'm setting you up for success. Um, what, what are your thoughts on that? Like, do I need to be doing all this hand walking beforehand? Is it a good thing? Is it, you know, is it overkill?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:47:54-00:49:23]
I'm not going to tell you not to because I think that's a great idea. And if I if I wanted my clients to start doing groundwork with their horses, I'd probably have to pay them to do it. Like I you know, like a lot of a lot of my clients are competitive. It's competitive show barns. Right. And so. If you say groundwork, they think I'm talking about backyard again. Yeehaw. They don't have a – I don't know what they think is happening. But I'm not Pat Pirelli out here. I just want you to do some groundwork. And it's functional groundwork. I'm not asking you to – I don't know what people think I'm saying when I mean groundwork, but I want your horse to be working on the ground. Yeah. And it's only going to benefit you because now you're watching them move. And usually all you rely on is your feel. And I hate to break it to adult amateurs. We don't have the best feel. That's why we're adult amateurs and we're not professionals and we need somebody constantly telling us things. Right. Yeah. So yeah, So it's important to be able to see your horse move. And I went off on a tangent when all you asked me was the yes or no question. Hey. Keep doing the walking, keep doing the walking. You're never going to, I mean, you're not going to cause a problem in your situation, right? You're just walking her before you get on. She's rideable. You're going to ride after whatever, keep hand walking her. I mean, you move, she moves, everybody wins.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:49:23-00:50:03]
I was just going to say, I also look at it from the perspective of me too. Like I've said a lot, I sit at a desk all day. And so then me going and getting on my horse, like that's not really doing them any favors. Um, So for us doing like hand walking beforehand, not only am I like helping to get them moving a bit without the weight of me on their back, but I'm also moving myself and getting myself warmed up so that I don't take this desk stiffness and, you know, sit on their back with it. So I that's that's kind of my take on it, too, is it's like I kind of do my own warm up at the same time.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:50:04-00:50:05]
I think it's brilliant.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:50:06-00:50:28]
Warm up exercises. So we've talked about the slow walking, which is which is a problem. So we want to have a bit more of a medium walk, more of an active walk when we're warming up. What are some exercises as well that people can start to implement? And then also, is it discipline specific or these exercises, whether it's dressage, hunter jumper, etc.? ?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:50:30-00:52:32]
So I truly made the guides that I have available, right? It doesn't matter what you're doing. They're going to benefit your horse, right? Everybody needs their horse to be supple. Everybody needs their horse to be able to move laterally, bend, to have focus. Everybody needs their horse to know where their feet are and be able to pick them up, right? Right. We all want an engaged horse when we're working with them. It doesn't matter what you're doing. So I don't have anything right now that's discipline-specific as far as that goes. It's going to benefit any horse that's ridden, and the groundwork one is going to benefit any horse that is ridden or not that's able to do groundwork. Okay. The things that I focus on when I'm in the guides and with clients that need to be adding extra warm-up in is suppling exercises and transitions. You pretty much can't go wrong. The guide also incorporates polls. for proprioception, core activation, you know, picking up our feet, focusing, things like that. And while still incorporating, suppling and transitions. But those are things that it doesn't matter what you're doing or if you're doing anything. If you're just somebody who's not really got something that you're working towards as far as you don't compete or think like, I'm not a competition person, but I want my horse to be moving well and feeling good and able to move later into life. Right. Like I want my horse to age well and have longevity regardless of whether I'm performing or not. So it's really, I made the guide, um, So that it's going to benefit horses in general and not just if you do dressage or if you're a hunter jumper or if you run barrels.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:52:32-00:53:53]
Yeah. Love that. I like that you incorporate, like you said, like the different things in there, too. And you've also added in some poles and things like that so that it gets interesting. It's interesting for the horse. It's interesting for the rider. There's different things that you can be doing. So I love that versus just like always having this same warm up that somebody does every single time or something like that. Eventually you get certain things. It gets really monotonous. And, you know, I say that from experience that it's like I was like, oh, this is a good warm up routine. Like I I eat the same thing for breakfast every day because I I'm that kind of person where I'm like, this works for me. So I'm not why I switch it up. And so, like, I'll find like a good routine and I'm like, this is what I'll do then. And so, like, I need that stimulation of somebody else saying like this. here's a variety of things to choose from. So I think that's really smart that you do that. And it's just, it's, it's just really helpful for like, like we've been talking with the theme of this episode, like the amateur horse owner, like we, we're, we don't ride for a living. We have so many other things going on in our lives. And so decision fatigue, like what am I going to make for supper? I've got to do all these things for my job. Oh, okay, now I've got to come up with all of these exercises to do with my horse. And it's like, or you can take the guesswork out of it and read this guide.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:53:53-00:53:59]
And this guide will give you ideas to change it up and make it easier for you.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:53:60-00:54:01]
And I love that.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:54:02-00:55:50]
Exactly. And I think that part of the problem, too, is that people think I don't know if I need to rename it or what, but people think that when I ask them about their warm up routine when they're riding, they're like, oh, well, I just walked right canter a few laps. OK, and how's that going? Right. Like, how do you feel while you're just walk track cantering a few laps? Are you like, you can't wait for it to be over, right? And you're probably rushing it at that point because it's boring. Because you're just walking on the rail in the arena and switching directions probably only once, let's be serious. And then... Now we're going to try and we're going to switch direction once. And now we're going to canter and we're going to switch direction once. And now we're going to get into the meat and potatoes of the workout for the day. And it's like, OK, well, if we incorporate more into the warm up phase. That's going to benefit no matter what you're doing in the actual work phase. Then we can stay interested and engage our mind. And if our mind is engaged, then our horse is probably engaged as well. Right. Like we're not just that's why our horses are doing funeral procession walks. Right. Because they're like, oh, cool. I'm walking on the rail again. Yeah. Like the second you stop cantering your horse, are they just like, oh, nice, we're going to walk. And they just slow down. Right. Like you have to ask your horse to walk forward because they're like, no, I'm walking. So that walk feels normal, and the second you ask your horse to walk forward, I have people ask me, well, what's going on with the hind end? I'm like, babe, they're swinging. They have a swinging back in their walk now because they're moving.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:55:51-00:56:37]
So I just want people to take their warm-ups more seriously and not just – you're not doing your horse any good just walking a couple laps on the rail and then getting into – getting to business like we need to do more to prep for what you're doing regardless of what you're doing because everybody needs a supple horse an engaged horse a focused horse regardless of their discipline right yeah so love that love prehab what is prehab we hear rehab all the time but this is prehab so what is it and why is it so important prehab Rehab is pre-rehab, right?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:56:38-00:58:01]
So I want to make sure that we're doing preventative maintenance so that we can help prevent situations where we need to rehab our horses. Like, it's everything that you're doing to hopefully, like, we want to minimize risk of injury, okay? So anything that you can do for your horse that goes into that, you're pre-habbing, right? So... You have a wellness team for your horse. You have an osteopath. They have all kinds of things. Their farrier, everybody is working together. So that's your horse's wellness team, right? So in the States, we generally have a chiropractor, a body worker, a farrier. Some people, if they're on their own, have a nutritionist for their horse. And then you have their regular vet, right? All these people should be working together to... Know your horse and keep your horse feeling their best so that they can perform whatever job they're supposed to be performing. Then we're talking about proper warm up, warm up and cool down. Cool down is the same thing, right? You I see so many lessons and and then the horse. OK, so I see a lot of hunter jumper lessons, right? And a horse lands off the last jump. Hey, that was good. We're going to end it there. Rider does a lot and then they go to the barn. Or a rider makes sure their horse isn't blowing, and then they go to the barn.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:58:01-00:58:08]
I grew up, if you touch their chest, if their chest was cool, then they could go away.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:58:09-01:02:15]
Because then where are they going? A lot of times over here, they're going into a stall, and then they're going to stand in their stall for 10 to 13 hours, however long it is. And that's what they're going from... what's they're going from 60 to zero yeah and then they're just going to stand there and turn a couple circles overnight maybe lay down whatever so that that actually plays into what i was going to say about prehab as well is movement okay we want our horses moving as much as possible and i understand that especially someone that works with uh performance horses primarily that We're stalling our horses a lot. We are. Our horses are stalled a lot. I can tell you the last time I saw even like a hot walker or just a not hot walker where they're, you know, they're just going and they're just moving and they're not turned out. But a lot of horses are not turned out nearly as much as they're in. And the movement that they get when they are stalled is their hour of exercise with somebody on their back. There's not, Hey, let's do some groundwork earlier in the day. And then later we're going to do our ride and, And if they are taken out multiple times, say for while they're at a show or something, it's because we're going to lunge them into the into the dirt. And then we're going to put them back a few hours later. We're going to lunge them into the dirt again. Then we're going to ride them. Then we're going to put them back, lunge them into the dirt, then compete and then put them back. Right. So now not only are they moving less. Right. But then if you're bringing them out from not moving and you're putting them on a tight circle, say a round pen or a lunge line, now you're overloading the joints because you're constantly on this turn, especially if they're being a little fresh, a little frisky, and now we're going to run them into the dirt. So... We're not only have they not been moving enough because we just pulled them out of a stall for hours. Right. But we're going to overload the joints and we're going to do it to exhaustion. So. Hey, but we're going to wrap the legs after we're going to wrap the legs after it's fine. Okay. But what about the joints and everything above it? What about the muscles? Like I get that we want a horse that's going to be chill. And a lot of barns are trying to prep horses for adult amateurs that are not as confident or can't really afford to have a fresh horse because God forbid they fall off. And then they have a broken collarbone and they have children. They have to take care of whatever the situation is. Um, Everybody wants a horse that they can ride, right? So it's what are we doing to make the horses rideable for those people? And is it actually the best practices? So like rehab, I just I really want people to have properly fitting tack, have a wellness team for their horse, properly warm up and cool down your horses and make sure that their horse is moving as much as possible and moving in a good way. Like maybe free from restrictive rigs that attach to their mouths, maybe not on a lunge line or in a round pen for until they're exhausted and crawling away. And maybe we don't put our horses away into a stall right after a lesson when they probably should move around a little bit more. But we have places to be. So it's tough. But I think that people need to stop thinking about it as I pay boards so that my horse is taken care of and I can go to shows and I can do this and that. And more of I have a horse and I need to take care of them for their longevity. Whether it's a horse that you lease or a horse that you own, that's a living thing that you're responsible for. And I feel like we just need to do everything that we can for them.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:02:17-01:02:36]
Yeah. I was just going to say, and I'm going to cap myself so I don't rant. But it's, like, it's the reminder that, like, these are sentient beings that, like, have their own lives and their own thoughts and feelings and things like that. And it's, like, if you just want something you can pull out and ride, like... Get a motorcycle in the garage.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:02:36-01:02:42]
Like have a dirt bike, get an ATV, snowmobile if you're in Canada.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:02:42-01:03:11]
Exactly. Exactly. Although our snow has not been very good lately. So I will say that as a Canadian. But yeah, it's a whole thing that I think is a huge problem. And that's why I I'm just I'm just going to say it is that I think that's why we're seeing all of the issues that we're seeing in these horses is that that's the way that the majority of them are being treated. And so then we're doing so much more rehabbing because we didn't do prehabbing. Right.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:03:12-01:03:13]
Right.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:03:13-01:03:21]
I love that. What are some examples of prehab exercises? Like if if somebody was like, OK, cool, this sounds really, really good. How do I get started?

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:03:22-01:03:23]
Groundwork.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:03:23-01:03:25]
Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:03:25-01:06:06]
By my guides. But no, but really, though. So, like, groundwork exercises. Like I said, people think that they don't need to do groundwork because their horse is a Grand Prix jumper or their horse is showing in the derbies, whatever. Or they've got fast barrel times, right? So, hey, we focus on what they need to be doing when they perform. But... What about everything that increases your horse's performance longevity, right? Like we get tunnel vision based on what we should be doing, right? My horse is a dressage horse, so I don't need to do raised poles or I don't need to do things that aren't these dressage movements, right? My horse runs barrels. Why do I need to do raised poles or do any groundwork? I'm not hand-walking my horse around barrels, right? So... Sure, you want a fast horse. Sure, you want a horse that can sit and do their canter pirouettes or whatever you're doing in dressage, right? You want your horse to jump. Okay. But constantly doing the same exercises with your horse over fences, barrels, these dressage movements that you have to ace your test. And so you're drilling these exact movements every time, right? Lead to... overload issues. So your repetitive overload issues are going to be things that you have drilled the same thing over and over. And now you switched it up a tiny bit and your horse's body wasn't equipped to handle the change, right? So, well, I'm always jumping this height. So I'm going to step it up a little bit this year because he can definitely do it. We don't need to warm it up. We're just going to go in the arena and do it. Well, your horse has been jumping 2.6 its whole career, and now you just put it in a three-foot class. So it sounds like it's not a big difference, right? It's six inches, yeah, but it's a big deal to your horse's joints. It's a big deal to your horse's back. It's a big deal to their muscles that have to absorb all the shock. It's a big deal, especially when you're thrown off because they had to really launch over a jump, and now you landed on their forehand, and they have to scramble to pick you up. So just... All of these things to say, we need to be switching it up with our horses, cross train your horses, get them on different, like get out of the arena, get into different arenas, warm up in a different way, add different things into your exercise routines. Like you can't just do the same thing day in and day out with your horse and expect your horse to do it forever and never have an issue. You're asking for problems and then you will be rehabbing your horse.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:06:06-01:06:43]
Yeah. Yeah. I think, too, the thing about groundwork is there needs to be a little bit of a shift. It's like groundwork needs to be rebranded. Right. Because people think groundwork is only necessary if there's a problem. Okay, my horse has this behavioral issue, so I need to do groundwork to fix. you know, quote, fix that issue. If you don't perceive there to be any issues, then why do I have to do groundwork? You know, like, I think that that's kind of the preconceived idea of it. And it's like, no, like, that's not, that's not what it means.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:06:45-01:07:14]
Yeah, whoever is in charge of groundwork, if we could, if we could speak to every branding on that. I mean, a lot of my clients, too, like, They either think groundwork is like Pat Pirelli, right, or whatever he's doing over there, that kind of thing, or it's lunging your horse. Because that's the only thing that performance horse people are doing with their horse on the ground. And there's so much more to it, and everyone needs to be doing it.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:07:14-01:08:12]
Yeah. I have one more question like this. And I will say just to preface this for everybody listening, all of the like the links to Jen's website for all like if you're like, yes, yes, yes. Like I want to learn more about this. We're going to put all these links in the show notes just as an FYI. So my final question related to this is, so we've been talking about, okay, warm up. So obviously those horses are physically able to be ridden. We've talked about prehab. Those horses are obviously in movement as well. What about the horses that aren't? So whether they are retired or they're temporarily out of work. So let's say it's due to the weather, like shout out to my fellow Canadians, or let's say the owner's schedule changes. Um, things are crazy hectic. They've got to go away for a little while, you know, whatever it may be. It doesn't have to be a lameness that the horse is out of work. It's just for whatever reason. Um, what are some suggestions of things? We're going to go back to groundwork.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:08:12-01:08:19]
Like what is the suggestion? I love how you knew where I was going with this.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:08:19-01:08:27]
She's going to air the horse is not doing it, not being ridden. What suggestion? Or some things that they could be doing.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:08:28-01:10:38]
Move. Move your horse. I don't... If your horse can't be... Well, like, whatever the case is, or your horse is just retired, they need to move. Horses are designed to move, and they need to do it. I don't know that it's necessary. I mean, it is use it or lose it, right? Your horse isn't going to, like, completely atrophy and just wither away into a prune overnight. But... Even if you're not riding your horse, you can engage muscles. And honestly, you can properly engage muscles that they can't always engage properly when we're riding, especially as adult amateurs. And without our restrictions, because we do have imbalances. Like you said, you sit at a desk a lot and now you're going to get up and ride your horse. Okay, well... Which, how are you going to prevent your imbalances from sitting at a desk? Or you usually have the chair support of like the back of a chair, right? Or if you ever, next time you take a drive that's 30 minutes, an hour long, think about how you're sitting in your driver's seat. Because personally, when I put on cruise control, I can completely shift how I'm sitting. And I have been really digging into that right seat bone. And I'm like, oh, yikes. And I shift it and my entire back changes. Like things like that are interfering your horses. If you're doing groundwork, which is something that you can do with a retired horse, a horse that you're not riding, but they're not lame, and some that are rehabbing from lameness, as long as you check with your vet, movement. is how you can keep their joints strong you can keep their bones healthy you're making sure that their tendons and ligaments are still elastic and able to stretch and recover and their muscles aren't just wasting away and their posture is becoming poorer and poorer and now they've got sway back and this and that everybody wants their horse to age well So keep your horse moving and do groundwork.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:10:39-01:12:01]
I also just want to say thank you for saying that, too. Like, thank you for driving that point home relating to movement. And not just now, but you've been saying it throughout. This was also is that. I know for myself, movement kind of became a scary thing. Like when when so many people were like, oh, like she had this issue, like speaking specifically to my mayor, it's like she had this issue. So like, you know, don't don't really do anything with her. Like and it really freaked me out. And so she became at the age of eight a pasture ornament because I was so freaked out of her doing anything. Right. And now it's like realizing the best thing for her. I mean, obviously, like in certain circumstances, like me lunging her in a tight circle probably wouldn't have been the best thing for her pelvis, but walking her in straight lines. Um, would have been really good. Um, and so that's what we've been doing now for so long. Um, because I'm realizing, oh crap, like movement is actually so important for the body and for the, like the emotions too. It's like, it's like how we process our emotions too. I'm getting on a whole other tangent here, but it's like, it's movement is, is so important in so many different ways. And so if your horse is retired or whatever, um, like don't forget about them.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:12:03-01:13:58]
Yeah, I think people, especially with retired horses, regardless of their age, because not every horse is 28 or 30 when they are retired, right? Like circumstances. But people are like, oh, my horse had a spa day. They got, you know, got a bath and got groomed and we hand grazed. I sat out with them and ate my lunch while they grazed. That is so great. And I love that you're bonding with your horse. But how about we bond with our horse while moving, right? Right. They actually do bond that way and they do form connection that way. It does associate you with, hey, this feels nice. I love moving in the sunshine or I love moving and working my body and figuring my body out. That is something that you can do with your horse still. It doesn't have to be like you're putting them to work necessarily. Like when my horse was coming back into work, that's why I got into groundwork. He didn't have a problem, but he had been retired for a little bit, you know, not retired fully, but just kind of put out to pasture for a little bit. and I was like okay well I haven't been riding a lot and I'm not going to get on you and ride like a stack of potatoes so it's also very cold and we don't have an indoor so I'm just going to start doing groundwork with him and poles and we're going to see how it goes and he ended up being well he's always been a puppy I've had him since he was two but um he would just follow me around we're doing poles I'm going over the poles with him we're backing up we're doing this we're doing that like It was an engaging way to be with my horse. Yeah. And I noticed his posture improved, his muscle tone improved, his mental state improved because he wasn't sitting in a stall constantly. And when I came out, I wasn't just coming out to put a saddle on him or just coming out to hold him for the ferry or whatever. Right. So it changes your relationship with your horse, too.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:13:59-01:14:35]
but also their physical bodies absolutely absolutely this um this past winter um when I wasn't riding of course um I just I just have an outdoor and so it was like covered with snow and ice um but the the ground itself was fine it was just like all of the water conglomerated and became an ice rink in my ring um so my husband and I would take the horses um for hand walks through the trails And it was so much fun. Like we had a blast and my horses, every time that they would see us, they would Winnie and like run over to the gate to be like, let's go for our walk.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:14:35-01:14:38]
Like they had so much fun with it.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:14:39-01:15:33]
Um, and the year before I didn't do a single thing with them in the winter. Cause I was like, well, it's the winter. So, you know, and it's, I mean, obviously they, they live out 24 seven in a paddock. Um, But they stand up and they stand and eat, you know, like they're not they're not walking around. And so changing that mindset of being like, OK, so right now it's not usable for me to do X, Y, Z. But what are some other things that I can do? And it was so much fun. I mean, it was good for them and it's good for us. But it was also just like a really fun relationship thing to do, too. So, yeah, that's I love that of like. It's physically good. It's emotionally good. It's relationship-ly good. Right. You know, yeah, it's, yeah, movement.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:15:35-01:15:35]
Yeah, movement.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:15:37-01:15:46]
Okay. The tagline, Train Like a Savage, obviously it's your last name, but can you tell us a little bit more about what that means, how you came up with it?

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:15:50-01:17:32]
I can't even take credit for coming up with it. It was something that my designer buddy who made my logo and has been my friend for much longer, the Equine Creative, Amber Tellman, she decided to put it on my business cards and said, hey, do you like this? And sent me a picture of it. And I was like, hey, yeah, get some printed for me. Those are great. And when I email my email list, I always started off with, hey, Team Savage. And that just, it just went from there. But I think if you think about it more, you know, like when somebody is being sassy or whatever, they're like, oh, that was savage, right? Yeah. I think it's pretty savage to just take care of your horses and do what's best for them and trust your gut and be the kind of horse owner that just wants what's best for their horse no matter what. And I don't think that it necessarily has to be about what can you do for them financially? Like what could, okay. Are they at like the most beautiful facility ever with this, whatever kind of footing is the best footing these days? Like, well, no. Okay. Well that sucks for them. Like, no, because I do this and that and this and that. And, and all I do is put my horse first and they ate their food and had their supplements and they, they had their Cairo today and I had ramen. Like, I just, as long as your horse is being, I mean, obviously take care of yourselves. Like, that's all in good fun. But it's just about, that's my little community that regardless of where you're doing, your horse is put first, period.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:17:34-01:18:26]
Also, I feel like the words, like, to me, when I hear train like a savage, I think of, like, this, like, badass empowered like kind of thing like to me unapologetic yes yes that's like when I read that that's the vibe I get and I'm like yes like that's right not only for the horse owner but for the horse too like empower your horse like I just yeah I I I personally love it um even if it was like a fluke and like you know it didn't like you didn't like come up with this like cool tagline um I love that you ran with it. And I just – it, to me, embodies the community that you've been building and, like, what your business stands for so well. So well done. Well done to Amber also.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:18:26-01:18:27]
Yes.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:18:27-01:18:35]
Good job, Amber. Final question. What is your hope for the future of the horse industry? That's a bit of a loaded one to end with.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:18:36-01:20:04]
Yeah. So I want – Strong, happy, cared for horses. I don't care what they're doing. I just want them to all be physically well, mentally well, cared for, moving. Again, with the movement, right? Horses. Whether you've got your horse at the top of their game or they're rehabbing or they're retired, I just want the industry to be more horse-centered. And I think that as a whole, it's come more, what can my horse do for me? And I understand that we are doing body work and we're doing this and that. And we're like, it seems like we're moving away from it. But if you peel back the curtain sometimes, it's still very much what can my horse do for me? And I think that the people that aren't like that are seeing more of the opposite because we've sought it out. Right. But like as a whole, the industry still feels kind of icky and what can my horse do for me? And I think, I hope that it just continues to change in the opposite direction, that it becomes something where the younger generation that's learning about things and how they should be different and they're more connected to their animals, whatever, that that continues on. And it ends up changing the crows in the industry as well.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:20:05-01:21:46]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I completely agree with you. Um, I also, I want to say like a personal thank you to you. Um, also because as someone who, as I mentioned was almost, um, almost became afraid of movement and almost became like afraid of, um, it was like, I don't want to mess up. So I just want to do anything at all. Um, and I, I kind of, for quite a few years, I almost went into this, like, self-pity. I don't want to, like, I feel weird using this word, but almost, like, victim mentality of being, like, for both myself, and I'm going to continue to use my mare specifically in this, is almost just feeling like, aw, like, this happened to us, and it sucks. Right. And, like... I don't know, like a woe is me. Um, and this sort of empowerment, um, and again, this whole like train, like a savage thing, like this, this embodiment of this empowered, um, like badass athlete, horse and human, um, like it is so refreshing, um, And something that I'm I'm slowly starting to embody myself as well. And so I want to say a personal thank you for that, because it's really starting to shift the way that I've looked at rehab, prehab moving forward. And it's it's given me a sense of like, yes, let's do this.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:21:47-01:21:49]
That I that I didn't have before.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:21:49-01:21:50]
So thank you.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:21:51-01:21:54]
So I will be adding you to the email list without your approval.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:21:58-01:22:17]
I fully expect that. And I will be the one that's like, Oh, it's my buddy, Jen. She's emailing me. Yes. Okay. To wrap this up, we have four rapid fire questions that we ask every guest first thing that pops into your head. Do you have a motto or a favorite saying?

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:22:18-01:22:19]
Be objective.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:22:21-01:22:24]
Who has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey?

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:22:26-01:22:38]
I won't name her because that's not good, but I did have a trainer, the one where I didn't feel like I had a sense of community for those formative years of my equestrian career. But I don't think I'd be here without that.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:22:38-01:22:49]
I love that you used the negative as the most influential. Love that. Love. Okay. If you could give equestrians one piece of advice, what would it be?

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:22:50-01:22:58]
Trust yourself. Learn to find answers. You know your horse. Trust your gut. And if you feel scared to trust yourself, DM me.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:22:59-01:23:04]
Love it. Please complete this sentence. For me, horses are...

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:23:05-01:23:05]
My life.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:23:07-01:23:11]
Okay. Where can people find you and how can they connect with you? And we'll put everything in the show notes, like I mentioned.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:23:12-01:23:27]
I am at SavageEquineServices everywhere. TikTok, I don't, I'm trying my best TikTok, but Instagram, Facebook, and my website is SavageEquineServices.com.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:23:27-01:23:44]
Perfect. We'll link it all in the show notes. And that includes the guides that Jen has been mentioning throughout this podcast as well for those listening. All right. Thank you so much. I so appreciate it. I've enjoyed this immensely. And yeah, I'm going to go train like a savage.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:23:45-01:23:47]
Yes, I love it. Thank you.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:23:49-01:24:22]
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Equestrian Connection podcast by WeHorse. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a rating and review as well as share us on social media. You can find us on Instagram at WeHorse underscore USA and check out our free seven-day trial on WeHorse.com where you can access over 175 courses with top trainers from around the world in a variety of topics and disciplines. Until next time, be kind to yourself, your horses, and others.

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