#56 Understanding Your Horse’s Dietary Needs with Connie Flores

[SPEAKER 2]
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On this episode, we're talking with Connie Flores, certified equine nutrition advisor and founder of The Forage Forage.

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It's dangerous for us to assume that every horse should be fed the exact same way.

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Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from WeHorse. My name is Danielle Crowell and I'm your host. Connie Flores is a certified equine nutrition advisor and the owner of 17 Hand Equine Nutrition. Her goal is to help horse owners understand the purpose behind every ingredient in their horse's diet and to help develop a personalized feed program specific to the horse as a unique individual. Connie works independently of any feed company and provides unbiased feedback and recommendations as well as keeps the owner's goal in mind. I'm super excited to share this podcast with you all so that together we can learn all about equine nutrition and ensure our horses feel, look, and perform their best.

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So let's dive in.

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Connie, welcome to the WeHorse podcast. I feel like I know you. I've been following you for so long and I just, I love, I love your content. I love your words. I love your story. And I'm just, I'm super excited to chat with you today. So welcome.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Thank you so much. I was so flattered and honored when you reached out. I did not expect that. So thank you so much. And I really love the work that you put into this podcast because you're so, I'm going off on a tangent, but the hosting that you do is really excellent. So I really appreciate listening to the podcast and getting to know you that way, as well as on social media as well.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Thank you. Thank you. Let's go back to the very beginning. How did you get into horses? And what were your first few years like as an equestrian?

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Okay. So I was always in love with horses from the moment I saw one. That's not something that was anyone else in my family had. My mom liked horses, but didn't like love them like I did. So she thought it was a phase. And so I did not get to have my first riding lesson until I was eight years old when she realized it was not a phase and I was not going to grow out of it. And I started riding horses at the farm that she found when we lived in Miami, Florida. And it was on Paso Finos, which I realized is fairly unconventional. I didn't realize that at the time, because when you're eight years old, you're just around horses and you don't care. Right. You're just like, I'm going to the barn. This is the one day a month that I'm the happiest. But it was actually really nice info to horses because the trainer was really kind. And like, even as a kid, I could tell that they treated the horses well. I remember specifically that they would have honey. in the tack up area and drizzle some on the horse's bits before we would ride. So all the horses would like easily accept the bit. I don't know if anyone else does that, but I just have that like core memory, like stored in there. Never seen it done again. Um, so that's just where I started. And then when we moved back to Tallahassee, Florida, my mom was able to get me some Western writing lessons with a friend who had horses in her backyard and And eventually I got tired of that specific person and we moved to find a different barn. We found English writing lessons. It was saddle seat. So I took that for a few years. And then, so in Tallahassee, Florida, they used to have this four-star event called Red Hills Horse Trials. which was this amazing three-day event. And we went to watch it. And I just fell in love with dressage and jumping at that point in time. And I was like, oh, this is what I want to do. So in high school, I moved into working with an eventing trainer and started taking more dressage lessons. And that's really where I spent the most of my time after that point in time was in dressage and jumping. but I've always had this pull between me because I was a theater kid and theater consumes your entire life when you're doing it. So I would always have periods of time where I would go without horses because I was doing something intensive in the theater. I used to stage manage shows and be on stage and that in itself is, It's so time consuming. Yeah. So I went to college at Florida State University and took my undergrad in theater. So during that time, I wasn't seeing horses as much, but I was still trying to escape for lessons whenever I could. Took some dressage lessons from a good trainer in the area. And after college... I moved down to Vero Beach, Florida with my to like, well, he wasn't my husband at the time, but I was staying close. And I started as a working student at a small eventing barn. And that is where I met Daisy. So for those that don't know that are just listening, Daisy was my heart horse. So I met Daisy in 2012, and she came into that small barn as a sales horse, and she was eventually sold to an aspiring young rider who competed her up the levels a little bit. And then in 2015, my husband and I moved out to Colorado. And my horse time is really limited at that point in time. And I was really heavily involved with the community theater here for a few years. And then I was able to get back into horses a little bit more in 2018. And then in 2021, I was reached out to by Daisy's previous owner. And she really wanted Daisy to go to someone who she would cherish her in retirement. And that was me. And I like bawled for like 30 minutes. That's where I got that text. So I was like so overwhelmed by the idea of having that horse.

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Yeah.

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And so scared we would have to say no. But with that twist of fate, Daisy arrived on a late July night in 2021. And our journey started there.

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for those listening, I, I almost, I, well, I exclusively wear glasses. I, I, um, I always wear, I always have a glass, like glasses on. And, um, today I had an appointment for a contact fitting. So I'm wearing contacts right now. And, um, It is not as comfortable when you get a burning sensation behind your eyes that you want to cry. It's a lot easier to do it with glasses on than contacts.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Thank you for that. Let's go.

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Before we go on to the second question, I just want to say that I honor the emotion that comes up so much because it means that we loved. So I see you. And so thank you. With that, what made you decide to pursue a career in equine nutrition?

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So Daisy did. Yeah. So I was consumed with the responsibility of her well-being and happiness. And she was an incredibly picky eater and a hard keeper. She would drop weight like that. And I was pulled in different directions by people saying different things about what I should feed my horse. She was also an incredibly anxious horse. So when I first got her, the barn manager at the time was like, okay, we need to take her off of food that has molasses in it. So I did, and I tried Forage Balancer and Hay Pots, and Daisy was like, yo, this is not the food for me. I will not eat this. This is disgusting.

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She's like, I went from molasses to, like, mush to cream of wheat.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Okay. Good analogy. So it took a lot of trial and error and trying to filter through the information that I was being thrown to figure out what works for her. And as we know, when you go online, there is a ton of misinformation. There's also a ton of anecdotal advice. So I looked up what I read because, you know, you go onto the Facebook forums and you're like, oh, maybe someone has a similar situation. Yeah. But they don't actually know what they're talking about. So that was super frustrating for me. And I would be incredibly anxious about my horse's care. And like, I would often get a text from the bird manager. Hey, she didn't finish her morning bucket. Hey, she didn't finish her morning bucket. Hey, she didn't finish her food. So I was really frustrated. So, fortunately, there are resources out there for us. I started listening to some podcasts that are actually by equine nutritionists that have PhDs in that area, such as the Feedroom Chemist with Dr. Jimmy Nichols and Beyond the Barn with Dr. Tanya Kubit. And also following different PhD nutritionists online like Dr. Rachel Mate. So I was able to find information from those that knew what they were talking about, but have gone to school for it for many, many years. And I was finally able to feel confident in my choices for Daisy. And she was finishing her food and we mitigated the management so she would be able to see horses and be happy and feel safe enough to eat. And so... As I was going through that learning phase, and this is before I took my course, as I was going through that learning phase and trying different things with Daisy, people in my barn would come up to me and be like, hey, I have this thing going on. What should I do? And people on Instagram would like reach out to me and ask different questions about nutrition for horses. And I was thinking, okay. There's a huge need for horse owners to have answers. I needed it. I wish that I had allowed myself to just invest in a nutrition consult so I could have that peace of mind for my horse years before I even thought about it. So I really want to get into equine nutrition further because, well, I'm in it further, but I really believe that there's a need for horse owners to have one worry taken away from them. If you can just have one worry taken away from you, what is that worth?

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I'm going to read a paragraph that you have on your website before I do that. Um, I just want to say how much this resonates with me. Um, I too, like, like you said, um, had it consume my every thought, you know, and it's as, you know, you're like, okay, so I have to figure out what it is that they're eating. Oh, and they have this going on and they have that going on. Oh, and then this is going on. And that person gave me this unsolicited advice. So maybe I should consider that. And then Google says this, and I saw this person on this Facebook group recommends this. And so it's like, you're swirling around with all of these thoughts and it's like giving you so much stress that you're not able to enjoy your time with your horse and you're not able to enjoy your time with your horse, like when you're home in your own life, because you're like, oh, rather than have a conversation, you know, with a loved one, I'm just going to, I had this random thought, so I'm just going to quickly Google it on my phone. And then I'm going to go down this like wormhole of all of these other things and decide I'm going to do something completely different than what I've been doing. I get it. so much because i've been there um yeah and so i i love love love your story and your reason behind it um so i want to read a paragraph that you have on your website um and it it just it breaks my heart wide open it says quote I lost time. I wish I could go back and allow myself to seek a nutritionist's help. I didn't realize the time I wasted or the desperation I brought home every day, putting distance between myself and my family because all I could think of was, what am I doing wrong? And what else can I try? I wish I could apply what I know now to her, and I would have been able to do more of the thing I loved before. spending quality, peaceful, and present moments with her. Time is a gift. Could you say more about that?

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Yeah, so when you're having this overwhelming sense of I'm not doing enough, what else can I do? Something is wrong. Let me try this other thing. You're never present because if you're constantly seeking a solution to a problem, you're never going to be able to to interpret the data that's currently in front of you you're never going to be able to to breathe for a moment and ruminate on what you have done already so it really did seep in every corner of my life you know i had moments where i could feel myself thinking so much about her nutrition while I was with her that she was like excuse me human I'm right here yeah where are you and the same thing would go at home when I was like you know with my husband I would be pouring over different things online and not fully present and that's just a strain that no one should have to go through you know And you shouldn't have time be taken away from you at the barn, which is, in my opinion, one of the places of utmost sanctuary. You should be able to fully enjoy your time there and fully be present with your horse because they live right now, every second. And we need to honor that. and put our energy into the present time when we're with them. And I never want anyone else to go through my experience of perpetual spiraling. I want to help other horse owners feel empowered and confident in their decision for their horse's nutrition so that they can focus on what matters, which is time with their horse.

[SPEAKER 2]
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I love that. I love that so much. You had mentioned that some people at the barn and now this is I'm assuming before you had gone on to get like certified and all that. But people were coming up and they were saying like, hey, what do you recommend for this? And I'm sure you're getting it now even more from people. So what are some of the most common questions from horse owners that you receive that they're just kind of wondering about?

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So a lot of the questions. So I tend to attract horse owners that have harder keepers. That's kind of my niche after my experience with my own horse.

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And for those listening, Daisy was a Thoroughbred, correct?

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She was a thoroughbred. She was a 17-hand chestnut mare.

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Not to, like, generalize thoroughbreds or stereotype thoroughbreds as being hardkeepers, but they typically are. But she was. Yeah.

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But she was. And in my opinion, not to stereotype again, but oftentimes the hardkeeper thoroughbreds are like the canary in the coal mines. If something's wrong with the management at a barn, the thoroughbreds will show you immediately. They'll drop weight. They'll show you immediately because they're so sensitive and they need much more careful management.

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And not even just like if something's off with like the feed room stuff, like if something's off in an energy, if something's off like everything, they're like the sensitive ones that we love. We love them for that.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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So a lot of the questions that I get are, often around like, what supplement should I use? And that's where a lot of people start. They think, okay, well, I need to supplement this. I need to fix this with a thing to add on. Or they often ask questions about like management. They're really important because you can't just have like the feedstuffs, only one part of it. You also have to have the timing of the management of the care. That's incredibly important. So sometimes people ask, well, is there anything else I should be doing for their hay? He only gets fed morning and evening. So that's another thing that we address as well. And as far as like going back to the supplement thing, I have this thing that I'm starting to call the spaghetti supplement theory, where you take all these supplements and you throw them at your horse to get sticks.

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Yeah, that's such a good analogy. Such a good analogy because it's so true. It's so true.

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Yes. So like I know that people will. Go, okay, I have to calm down my horse. What supplement should I try? And they'll try like five different things and then not take into account the foundation of the diet at all. Not take into account the horse's basic needs, forage, friends, freedom. Not take into account the energy that they're putting off as the owner. So there's all these different things that contribute to a horse's environment that we have to pay attention to. And we have to make sure that the nutritional needs are met. So if an owner comes up to me and says, well, my horse is really anxious. What should we do? This is theoretical. And none of the information I'm giving in this podcast is to one specific horse. So just take that with a caveat. We need to look at everything. before we go to any one thing.

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Love, love.

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So when I say management, that has to do with how much forage a horse has access to. We really like to see horses that have as much constant chew time as possible. The reason why is because the more horses chew, the more saliva they swallow, the more gastric buffering they do. So that's our horse's first defense against gastric upset or ulcers is swallowing things constantly to buffer that stomach acid and to keep the fiber mat in the stomach. So have you ever taken a look at the diagram of a horse's stomach?

[SPEAKER 2]
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I'm going to say no.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Okay. So I'm going to hold up my water bottle for those that can't see. I didn't enjoy this demonstration, Danielle. I will. So imagine your horse's stomach is a water bottle. And the top part of the water bottle, the stomach, is called the squamous region, which is non-glandular and does not produce acid. The bottom part of the horse's stomach is called the glandular region and produces acid. And these are all in one open chamber in a horse's stomach. So enjoy that for what it's worth. So when a horse chews long stem fiber, such as hay or grass, they swallow that and then it creates what's called a fiber mat. And that sits on the acid that's in the stomach, which helps to prevent the acid from... splashing around and splashing up and hurting the squamous region. So that's really very important, especially before you exercise or go on trailer rides or do something that has a period of stress. It's important that horses have a good fiber mat as a first line of defense against a gastric upset. So I hope this...

[SPEAKER 2]
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mental visual helps that. Um, yeah. And also just your explanation of it was very clear as well. Um, so even though it's like, depending on the way that people like process information, um, even just your like verbal explanation was very clear. Um, or at least it was to me. And, um, I, um, I love so much that you went into the idea of the whole horse. Um, and I think back now, um, when I was boarding my horses. So there was so many different things that were, you know, it was a very, it was a very busy stable. There was a lot of people, it was kind of a revolving door. Um, a lot of people were coming and going, um, very much a university, um, style, like a, A lot of university students were at the barn, so they would come and go depending on the school year. They'd go home, bring their horses home at Christmas, bring their horses home at summer, you know, and then come back. So they were always changing. My mare does not do well with stuff like that. Her environment is very important to her. And she was always very anxious about. And I was like, oh, well, I should try this supplement. I should try her gut also. Her gut was not good. She had a lot of digestive issues. And so I was always trying all of these different supplements, all of this different stuff, just, again, reading articles. Oh, well, this is what this recommends. You know, so you're trying everything. And then lo and behold, when I moved them home, all of that went away. And it was like, oh. It was never the supplement because she's not on anything. I mean, she's on supplements, but not anything to do with, like, mood or, you know, anything like that. All those issues went away because it was her environment problem. that was causing it. And so it was just one of those things where you look at and you're like, I spent so much money and so much energy and all of these things on these specifically focusing on this when an actual reality had nothing to do with what she was or was not consuming. It was the environment around her. So I love that you take that into consideration, you know, because it's, it's important.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah. And as humans, we tend to think that there's like the one thing that will solve all of our problems. But that's just not something that's the case. There is never one thing that will solve all of your problems. Horses are clear information delivery systems. They tell you how they are feeling at all times. Horses do not lie. So we have to take into consideration their feedback. about their environment, about their nutrition, about their training, about being separated from the herd. Like we have to take into consideration the information that they are delivering to us at all times.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Absolutely. Absolutely. I, I also, and I don't know, maybe this is part that you recommend as well as blood work. Do you, do you recommend that people do that for their horses as well, just to figure out like their vitamin and mineral levels?

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So, Specifically, getting a vitamin E blood serum level done is very good to test for vitamin E levels. As far as testing other minerals and vitamins, that's not necessarily the best way to go about it because that can fluctuate. But I do recommend horse owners get their vitamin E levels tested because that's the best way to do it is through the blood serum test. And that's through your veterinarian, of course. Yeah. The best way to analyze a diet is to look at the feedstuffs themselves. So analyzing the hay, looking at the guaranteed analysis for the products, that's the best way to understand and know that the horse is actually getting the vitamins and minerals that they need as per the National Council's recommendations. Mm-hmm. And I would suggest that owners look more to what's being ingested in the diet rather than doing a blood analysis, a hair analysis, urine analysis, which I have heard of being done in a university study. I don't think anyone's going to sit out there with a bucket.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Right, yeah, and be like, oh, yeah, I think it's coming.

[SPEAKER 1]
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So that's a little off. But you can use blood testing to test the horse's vitamin E levels and selenium levels. In the U.S., I think the selenium test is a little more expensive. And I would speak with your vet about that if a horse may be showing any sort of selenium deficiency. But...

[SPEAKER 2]
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yeah so as far as analyzing the diet goes it's best to look at the hay and the feedstuffs that the horse is ingesting awesome we're gonna talk a little bit about hay um as well but before we get there are there any common industry myths um that you hear a lot that you would like to address i saw this question and i was like oh there's so many i bet yeah there's so many um I had one that I spoke with a client about yesterday about alfalfa because, and it's been debunked to death, quite frankly, that alfalfa, the myth is that alfalfa will make horses hot.

[SPEAKER 1]
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The science does not have evidence to that, but alfalfa does have a higher calorie than a grass hay. but it also tends to have a lower sugar and starch level than a grass hay. So I, I think that owners see alfalfa and panic because the old wise tale was that alfalfa made horses hot. It does provide a horse more caloric intake, but I think it's a really beneficial hay for particularly hard keepers. Um, And it can be a really beneficial source of nutrients in the diet, depending on the circumstances. So that's one thing. It's definitely... Continuing to raise its hydra head is the alfalfa misconception. I also think that there is a lot of buzz in specifically online about one specific diet being better than any other diet for a horse.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Same for humans, when it's like, oh, you should be on this diet. It's like, well, just because it works for somebody doesn't mean it's going to work for somebody else.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Exactly. So we have to realize that a horse has specific nutrients that have to be met, and they can be met in different ways. So we have to look at the horse's individual everything. Right. So, for example, if someone came up to me and said, well, I'm just going to feed to my horses because that's what I've been doing for 20 years, I would counter with, is that appropriate for an easy keeper? The answer is probably not. And we need to look at the whole circumstance and make sure that horse is in maintaining an ideal condition. And I think I'm going off into my next question a little bit too much. That's okay.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Please.

[SPEAKER 1]
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I do think that it's dangerous for us to assume that every horse should be fed the exact same way because you're missing the key components of that individual horse's metabolism, their workload, their age, that horse's individual personality. So we have to look at the horse holistically and not just blanket feed all the horses in the barn the same thing.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah. Easy keepers. I know that you have a lot of experience with the hard keepers, but it does seem like there's a little bit more of a common question around the hard keepers. It seems like more people have issue keeping weight on their horses than getting it off. But for those that do have the easy keepers, what do you recommend?

[SPEAKER 1]
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So first of all, with an easy keeper, I actually think they're more difficult to feed appropriately than a hard keeper because you have to watch the calories more closely. So it really depends on do they have any chronic illnesses? Do they have any metabolic diseases? What's their workload? What's their age? We have to answer those questions. Our goal with an easy keeper is to maintain an ideal body condition. So on the Henneke body condition score, It goes from 1 to 9, with 1 being emaciated and 9 being overtly obese. The ideal body condition score lands between a 5 to a 6. So we really want to make sure our easy keeper is maintained at that level. So depending upon the horse, we need to consider... making sure, keeping in mind that they have maximum chew time without promoting obesity. So for hay, for an easy keeper, we have to consider the quality of the hay. You wouldn't want to feed like a really, really high quality hay to an easy keeper. You want to feed more of a moderate quality. So that way they can have a sufficient amount of it to continue chewing, swallowing and having that species specific need to have that fiber mat in their stomach. And we can do that through a few different ways, like using a slow feeder hay net. Those can be incredibly helpful for lengthening how long a hay meal lasts. Or even like if someone has the ability to throw multiple hay flakes a day and they don't want to use a hay net, they could do that. That's not really practical for most people, though. So we can try different slow feed methods to ensure that that horse has as long duration of meals as possible. If a horse is. a super easy keeper and you have them on pasture, you might have to consider limiting pasture intake because pasture has a higher amount of calories and sugars and starches, which can be great for a horse that needs it, but also can be detrimental to a horse that's obese. It could lead to different diseases. So we want to be mindful of that. You can use the dry lot a few hours a day instead of full-time on pasture. You could use a grazing muzzle, which reduces the intake by about 30%. You have to keep in mind what your management practices are with an easy keeper to make sure that they aren't becoming obese because you want to have longevity and quality of life by keeping them in the ideal body condition.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Next thing is that some people think that easy keepers, because they look great on having all the caloric needs met with hay, that they don't need any sort of vitamin and mineral balancer. But they do, because forage will always be deficient in certain vitamins and minerals. So we need to make sure that they're in the diet. So... I like to use a ration balancer because if a horse is in work, that also contains a good amino acid profile to help benefit that horse's muscles and workload. If a horse is a super easy keeper and not necessarily in strenuous work, you can also use like a trace vitamin mineral balancer or diet balancer. Just know that that won't work for every single horse depending upon their workload and status. So we have to take different things into consideration. I always like to make sure that there's sodium source in the diet. horses will usually not lick enough salt for their daily intake off of a salt block. The reason why is because a horse's tongue is very soft and salt licks were really developed with cattle in mind and they have rough tongues. So if your horse really goes after the salt block and loves it, that might be sufficient, but I really like to see some salt added into the ration.

[SPEAKER 2]
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Yeah, I just feed loose salt. Like I just get it from like a bulk food store and then I just put in like loose salt.

[SPEAKER 1]
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Yeah. So I like in general for like an average 500 kilogram horse, about a thousand pound horse, you want to see about two tablespoons of salt in the diet. But horses have specific tolerance levels. So you probably won't be able to get away with putting two tablespoons in one meal. So I like to split it up over AM and PM meals. But it depends on your horse, too. Some horses have a different preference. Some horses will only ingest Himalayan salt for some odd reason. So whatever salt your horse ingests is the one that you should use. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
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yeah one get whatever is available at the bulk food store that's perfect yeah I think table salt table salt is just sodium chloride done dusted yeah yeah I do try to find though if you like if you look at the bulk food stores or just anywhere that you can get salt if you look at the different ones some have like a bunch of additional ingredients so I usually always try to get the ones that just say salt in them that don't have like Potassium dioxide, like, you know, things like that. I don't know if that makes a difference, but for me, I'm like, okay, well, I'm just looking, like, I just want salt.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:35:57-00:37:12]
So that's what I think. Yeah, just salt. Just salt is fine. Some people like to use, like, the fancier salts that have, like, trace minerals in them. But scientifically, the trace minerals that are in that fancy salt is incredibly negligible, and you're probably not getting any benefit from it. So just normal table salt is... Usually the cheapest way for people to feed it to their horses and it's completely sufficient. Let's see. Oh, I also like to have an omega-3 in the diet for an easy keeper. So I prefer a DHA and EPA omega-3. So that comes from like an algae source or fish oil source because DHA and EPA are readily available to be used by the body and If you use flax or camelina or chia seeds, that can also be beneficial for like coat bloom. But the omega-3 in those plant sources is called ALA, which is alpha-linolenic acid, and that doesn't convert as well. into EPA and DHA to be used by the body. So if you're looking for like a stronger omega-3 support, I would go with something that has DHA and EPA in it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:37:14-00:37:14]
Awesome.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:37:16-00:40:30]
What about hard keepers? My favorite topic. I love to see forage in front of those horses as much as physically possible. 24-7 is my ideal. If you can't 24-7, the least amount of hay that I would feed to a hard keeper is 2% of their body weight. So you want to make sure that you get that calculated or just feed them as much hay as they can possibly eat. And we really also want to make sure that you're working with your vet to rule out any diseases that may be underlying that could be contributing to a potential malabsorption. So do a vet workup, make sure that they're doing okay, or if they need veterinary intervention, please utilize your vet for that. Some heart keepers can also have ulcers. Again, talk with your vet. And with the ulcer conversation, everyone loves to just treat, but you really need to scope your horse with your veterinarian to understand the severity of the ulcers and where they are, because that will change how they need to be treated and diagnosed by your veterinarian. And I'm not here to diagnose or treat ulcers, but I can help with the feeding management to mitigate them as best as possible. Okay. Also think about parasites. Talk with your vet about that. Eye and gut inflammation. Talk with your vet about that. So just make sure that your vet's on board. If you have a hard keeper and you're not understanding why they're not gaining weight, make sure you get a vet workup. With a hard keeper, you really want to feed them as high quality forage as you can afford. and get as much in front of them as possible, it's basically giving them every chance to ingest calories because every single bite they take, every pound that goes in their mouth matters. And I see really good success with adding some alfalfa to the diet for a hard keeper. Like even just like five pounds of alfalfa can make a difference if that's available and an option for the horse specifically. As far as like getting more calories into them, there are a lot of different balanced rations that you can use. There's different commercial feeds that have a high calorie amount. You want to speak with someone to make sure that you're feeding that feed at the appropriate rate. So you want to make sure that, for example, that you're not feeding like a really low calorie feed for a herd keeper. You want to make sure that they're being fed at an appropriate amount or just make sure that their calories are high enough to have them increase weight. And usually that mark is about anywhere from 8,000 to 9,000 kcals. So kcals is like a usual calorie to help increase body weight by about a pound a day. And that's an ideal.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:40:30-00:40:31]
Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:40:32-00:42:50]
And you can do that either with a commercial feed or with a ration balancer and hay pellets, beet pulp and different sources on top of that. I also really like to see a fat supplement in the diet for a hard keeper because fat is a really good energy source, but it's cool burning as opposed to like a simple carbohydrate diet. Um, so for, for my heartkeeper thoroughbred, she did great on a high fiber, high fat diet. Um, and I see other heartkeepers do really well with that. And we want to keep in mind too, that we don't want a really high non-structural carbohydrate. So non-structural carbohydrate is like a calculation of the sugars and starches in the diet in simple terms. And we do want to, when I say like low nonstructural carbohydrate, NSC, generally 20% and lower is typically pretty good for hard keepers. I forgot to make a note on the easy keeper. We'll come back to that in a second. And we never want to exceed more than 0.5% of body weight in a single concentrate meal, free soaking. So for the average thousand pound horse, that's five pounds. You never want to feed more than five pounds dry weight. I like to soak my feet. So that's why I say specifically dry weight. You never want to feed more than five pounds in one single meal. So you can split that up over the day like you do. Like if a horse needs like six pounds of a performance feed, then I would do three in the morning and three in the evening. Right. Just to split that up, it's better for their digestive systems. Um, and I really, with that fat supplement, like you can speak with your nutritionist about what works for you. There's multiple different forms of it. Um, I also like to pack on an omega three cause it's just so good for the diet and you want to make sure that they have salt as well as any, any horse basically can use sodium in the diet. Um, For a really hard keeper, you might want to consider a gastric or hindgut support supplement, and you have to rule out some different diseases first before you know where to go with that.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:42:51-00:43:55]
Mm-hmm. I don't know what my horses would fall under because they are, as long as I stay consistent, they could stay consistent keepers. If I, if I like change things to decrease it, they'll decrease their weight. If I change things to increase, they increase their weight, obviously. But it's like, if I just keep everything the same, they look fantastic. And all that to say, the only reason why I'm able to do that is because before I brought them home, so a couple of years ago, I had a nutrition analysis done for both of them. And it has been the best thing I've done because I'm so confident in what I feed. They look great. They feel great. And if I hadn't, I probably would have been throwing the spaghetti supplement thing at the wall and, you know, and going through this whole spiral. It was such a good investment because I've never had to think twice about it.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:43:55-00:43:57]
That's awesome. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:43:58-00:44:04]
So, yeah, it's, I think, I think it's, it's such a good thing for horse owners to do.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:44:05-00:44:54]
Yeah, absolutely. So, and we really, One more thought on that. With hard keepers, we absolutely have to look at the whole environment because the diet's not the only thing affecting your horse's well-being. If a horse... is not safe. If they don't feel safe, they're not going to eat properly. They're not going to sleep well at night and they won't maintain their species specific behaviors as they need to, to really flourish. So that I really think that if you have a hard keeper, look at every single thing in their environment, make sure they feel safe. So that way you're not, Trying to push a boulder up a hill with those other triggers constantly pushing you back down while you're trying to get one thing solved. You have to look at it holistically.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:44:54-00:45:13]
Such an important point to make. Thank you for adding that in. If someone was looking to create a custom feeding plan for their horse, like let's say they want to do whether it's a nutrition analysis or they just want to say like, hey, Connie, like, can you just come up with like a meal plan basically for my horse? What's your advice to get started?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:45:15-00:45:18]
So if someone's reaching out to me specifically, that's great.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:45:18-00:45:19]
We'll start there.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:45:21-00:47:31]
But if someone's really trying to think about everything before they reach out to a nutrition advisor, I would consider starting with thinking about the management of your horse. Is forage being fed at an appropriate rate and quality for your horse? Do they need more? Do they need less? Do they need to extend the chew time of your horse? Look at your horse's condition. Can you see rib? Can you squish that fat around the tail head? Is it wiggly too much? Or is the crust of the neck really, really hard? You have to take into consideration your horse's individual status first to figure out which way you want to go. Like, do they need to lose or do they need to gain weight? You really have to have an answer to that. And then you should really make sure that you're feeding a balanced ration appropriate for your horse's condition and workload. and at the correct rate. I think everyone needs to keep in mind feeding rates really matter. You should not feed a ration balancer at five pounds and you should not feed a senior feed at just one pound. They're made specifically with those different concentrations of vitamins and minerals for that feeding rate purpose. So always consult on the back of the bag and make sure that you're not over or under supplementing your horse with feed because you don't want to contribute to like for example if you're feeding too much of one thing that can be dangerous or you're feeding too little of one thing that's just not enough So think about those questions and then reach out to me. Reach out to me or another qualified nutrition advisor or PhD nutritionist. We reserve the term nutritionist for someone that has a master of science or a PhD in that specific field. So I would never call myself a nutritionist. I call myself a nutrition advisor. I do work under a Ph.D. nutritionist, Dr. Rachel Mate. So I can always have my questions answered and have support. But I just want to throw that out there as that specific differentiation.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:47:31-00:47:41]
Awesome. So speaking of like you and specifically, what are the services that you offer? Like what do they include that people can expect to get?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:47:42-00:51:43]
Yeah, so I offer virtual or on-farm services. On-farm right now is just the front range of Colorado because I can't travel to multiple states all the time. But I can work with you virtually anywhere. And my introductory program is 30 days. And the reason why I do that instead of just an hour consult is because I like to follow up. I like to see results. I like to provide support because I wanted that. So, yeah. For our 30-day nutrition guided program, what you can expect is, so if we're doing it virtually, so like, a virtual consultation, I would make sure that you send me everything. So with the intake, you're the one that's providing the numbers and the weights and information about your horse. And then you send that to me over. I go through and do a diet analysis. I run the numbers next to the NRC, which is the National Research Council. They put up nutrient requirements for horses. compare what you're currently feeding, look at different things that matter in the diet, and then propose, okay, so what are your goals with this horse? I keep in mind your goals, what you've told me about your horse. Keep in mind if you're boarding your horse or if you're keeping your horse at home. I take into consideration if they have any diseases going on, do I need to call the vet and work with them on this? I take into consideration your horse's specific personality because that can dictate feeding patterns and eating patterns. And then I come up with something in mind as to food that not only can you get consistently, because that matters. If I were to suggest a brand that you can't access, there's no point. So I like to ask where your closest feed store is so I know what's available and I look them up online and see what brands they have. Or if I know of a brand that can be shipped directly to your door, I might consider that as well. So with the diet analysis, I run all the numbers, make a giant spreadsheet, make a graph as well. And I like to do that by hand. I like to do it myself rather than using a specific software because I can see the numbers myself and I can really understand all the data individually. And I have the training to do that. Yeah. And then I also provide in our initial meeting, we go over the paragraph and the reason behind my choices, have a full implementation plan to help you transition the diet as needed. I've also had clients that need like need like an exercise framework if they have an easy keeper and they need some ideas of what to do with them. I've also created that as well, keeping in mind like gentle plans, gentle exercise plans, just so you can have a place to go. We meet, we talk through it, we go over it. And then I like to check in weekly. So week one, check in. Week two, phone call, either a video call or a phone call, see where we're at. Week three, check in. Week four and our 30 day progress check. Do a video call. See how things went. See if anything needs to be adjusted and make sure that you know that I'm here for you for support. And of course, I'm literally available 24, well, not 24 seven, but I'm available the whole time for my clients to text me questions, to email me questions, to be like, hey, how about this? And I'll be like, yeah, sure. Or no, thanks. And this is why. And I'll come back with some research-based information or links to different research studies that have been done on a specific thing so you can have that information. I don't want to just dictate what to feed your horse. I want to help educate you so that way you know, if I'm not there to hold your hand, that you have options and you can do it yourself.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:51:46-00:51:50]
Love that. I love that. It's like empowering horse owners. I love it. Yes.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:51:50-00:52:31]
Yeah. Yeah, so that's like my 30-day plan. I also do a 60-day with horse owners that might need more support consistently within that first 60 days. And then I offer my alumni, so alumni, air quotes here, a check-in every so often just at Lib, whatever they need. The reason why I don't offer that to someone that hasn't been through a program with me is because I like to make sure that I know the horse. I've done the data. I understand what's going on. So I can give more targeted information, more beneficial to that specific horse and circumstance.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:52:32-00:52:46]
Love it. So like intricate and. I don't know if hands-on is the right word, but, like, helpful. Like, there's so much in there. So that's awesome. That's really, really awesome.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:52:46-00:52:53]
Yeah. Go ahead. I'm also available to do hay testing locally. I've got a big drill.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:52:53-00:52:54]
Just going to say, perfect.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:52:54-00:52:56]
That's exactly what I wanted to ask you.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:52:56-00:53:20]
Can we talk about hay? It's one of those subjects that, I don't know, you're, like, growing up, I was always just like, hay is hay. Right? Like, it was just, it's hay. But it's not. So can we talk a little bit about that and why hay test? How do you hay test? All of the things.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:53:21-00:53:32]
Yeah. So first off, I want to say that hay testing is probably not necessary for 90% of people. The reason why is because if you're in a boarding situation, that hay is changing all the time.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:53:32-00:53:34]
Right. And also a lot of times it's out of your control.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:53:35-00:55:50]
It's out of your control. There's no point. Fortunately, we do have a great database of hay averages. Thank you to Aqua Analytical for being the most awesome laboratory service. And we can use those to have a general understanding of the averages of a specific type of hay. So I like to use Echo Analytical because it's the top lab in the U.S. They're based in New York. And they have common feed profiles on their website that you can go right to and you can select legume. You can select mostly grass hay. You can select mostly legume hay. You can select Bermuda grass. So there's different profiles. types and you can see what those general averages are and they have like a whole spreadsheet full of it so for my clients that are virtual that i can't do a hay test for i i rely on that i also rely on that if we can't get a hay test done just so we have a place to go and like an understanding of the general averages of that specific type of hay and of course that could change so um The reason why we really want to do hay testing whenever possible, if you are able to get about three months worth of hay, it's worth testing because the test itself can tell you so much good information about the protein content of the hay, the digestibility of it, like what is the digestible fiber, the sugars and starch levels, some mineral levels. So it's really helpful to understand if, okay, This batch of hay that I have is a really low protein hay. I might need to supplement with an additional thing. Or specifically, if your horse is metabolic, going through a laminitic episode or something like that, it's incredibly important to test the hay so you understand where the sugars and starches are. Because if your horse is metabolic, you don't want to exceed more than 12% non-structural carbohydrates in the diet, total diet. So that can give you some very valuable information on, is this hay appropriate to feed to my horse or will it trigger a laminitic response?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:55:52-00:56:50]
You can reduce the sugars and starches in the hay by soaking the for 30 minutes in warm water 60 minutes in cold water um you don't really want to soak more than that because you can lose even more nutrients from it but it can reduce the sugars and starches in the hay by about 30 percent yeah so if your horse is like and i have a friend who went through this with her horse and had to to soak hay and have an immediate response It's just – it's really interesting that you say that because I'm just thinking, like, I know some people that – they were soaking hay, their horses, if hay was really dusty, their horses would just get, you know, activated by it. So they would always have their hay, like they would just put it in a big thing of water and just give it to the horses. And a lot of them were hard keepers. And I'm wondering, like, was it just a coincidence or were they just losing a lot of the nutritional value when they were doing that?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:56:51-00:57:36]
That's a question I don't know the answer to. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, I don't know. what I can say is that you don't want to like if you're soaking hay for a horse that needs the sugars and starches reduced you have to drain away the water because otherwise you're just leaving the sugars and starches there so use a hay net or those fancy porter grazers have like a drain at the bottom or something like that or like old leaky water tub Like you can, I don't know, there's, there's different methods, but you want to remove the water when you're feeding that soaked hay. So that way the sugars and starches actually drain away from the hay.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:57:37-00:57:37]
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:57:37-00:59:14]
Good point. Yeah. So, and that's, that can be, Testing is the only true way to know what's in your hay. Otherwise, we just have those averages that we can estimate from. But, again, it's just not practical for the majority of horse owners, and that's okay. But you can also tell quality of hay by look and feel and smell. So there's different ways to kind of guesstimate the quality of the hay and But like if you look at a hay and it's like super stocky, like there's not as much leaf in it, that might be kind of on the higher end of digestible, like what they call nutrient neutral. So neutral detergent fiber is one of the calculations that tells us how digestible the hay is. The higher that percentage of NDF, the less digestible it is. So that's something to look out for with a hardkeeper horse if you're having like a super stocky hay and the NDF comes back pretty high. Um, and by high, I mean like 60% and above, then you might want to consider moving to a hay that is a little softer looking. Um, it just depends on the circumstances, right? So to make blatant statements about, about hay piles makes me a little nervous because I just don't know about that actual test. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:59:14-01:00:06]
I have a question. Um, Regarding my hay, and I'm not sure if this is something that you can answer or not, but I'll ask, is I do a mix of first cut and second cut. So whenever my hay farmer brings, like I feed him round bales, and so whenever he brings the bales, and I always say, give me, you know, half first cut bales and half of it being second cut bales. And then, um, I'll just kind of, I was feeding it the first few years I was feeding it, that if it was like a nice stretch of weather, they would get first cut. And if it was like a colder stretch of weather, they would get second cut. And now we just kind of just like, whatever you grab, um, is there like, what are, what are your thoughts on that? Like switching between first cut and second cut? Or does it matter?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:00:06-01:00:49]
Honestly, I don't think it matters as much as the actual nutrients that are in the hay. Okay. So, like, if you really want to know, just test it. Just get your – like, if you're in the U.S., usually each county has a county extension agent, and they usually have a hay probe on hand, and they can let you borrow it. Just get a power drill. Use that hay probe. Take it from, like, 12 bales and send it off to testing. Okay. Just to have more knowledge. I'm not sure what the testing lab in Canada is, but I don't think necessarily the cut of the hay matters as much as the actual nutritional components of the hay. So don't hurt yourself thinking about that.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:00:49-01:00:49]
Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:00:49-01:00:50]
Okay.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:00:50-01:01:03]
So I was like, is it going to upset their stomach if we're like switching from something that is a little bit like, because the second cut is always like a little bit of like a softer, more leafier cut. And then the first cut tends to be a little bit drier.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:01:04-01:02:17]
So with any hay transition, that can upset the horse's microbiome because it's a transition. So whenever you're going from different batches of hay, you have to transition slowly to help the microbiome in the back end understand what they're actually eating. And if you suddenly transition hay types, the risk of colic increases by 10 times. Because that is a sudden upset to the microbiome. So what you want to do is you want to slowly transition that hay over a period of a week. So like first, I like to use that 25% rule where you're doing like 75% old hay, 25% new hay for a couple of days and do 50-50 and then do 25% old hay, 75% new hay. And, like, you can spread this out over a period of five to seven days to just let the microbiome adjust to it to have them go through that slower transition. Because the microbiome hates change. Those little bugs want consistency and safety at all times. Sounds a lot like the heart keepers I know.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:02:17-01:02:17]
Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:02:19-01:02:36]
So any change in the horse's diet suddenly can cause a disruption. And we always want to avoid that. So whenever we transition hay, you have to keep in mind, just because it looks like hay to you, it could be completely different to the microbiome. So do it cautiously between hay batches.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:02:37-01:02:39]
Awesome. Okay. Gotcha. Thank you for that.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:02:40-01:02:40]
Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:02:41-01:02:49]
The next thing I want to chat about is your other company. So you've had the company, The Forage Forage, for how long now?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:02:49-01:02:52]
It's been a couple years. Since March 2023.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:02:52-01:02:53]
Yeah, okay.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:02:54-01:02:54]
Two years.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:02:55-01:03:00]
Really? I feel like I've, like, I literally feel like I've been seeing it for a lot longer than that.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:03:01-01:03:53]
Well, so The Forage Forage came out of my desire to make some really cute, treats for my barn friends in December, 2022. So I like made them these cute little bags and I posted a picture on Instagram and I was like, Hey, does anybody want some? And within 48 hours I had just orders. I had 50 and I was like, there were 200 things to make and I had no idea what I was doing. And I was like, Oh no, I can't make any more. So yeah, That's how that started was because I just really thought these were adorable. And I really wanted to make like a thoughtful gift in mind for my barn friends of hay pellets. That way it's not like a digestive upset to the horse. And it's been super popular. It's been fun.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:03:55-01:03:56]
So what is the forage forage?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:03:57-01:05:06]
Yeah, so for those that don't know, the Forage Forage, it's a catchy title. So I provide forage-based mash kits for horses. So what I mean by a mash kit is that you've got everything you need in that bag to make a fun mash for your horse, with the base being hay pellets, some beet pulp. I put in about a half teaspoon of salt in there as well because we know hydration is important. And then I have different flavoring toppings, whether it's got flax and coconut and peppermint leaves, or whether it's got puff peppermint, my horse's personal favorite, and dehydrated carrots. So it just has a bunch of different flavorings available. One that I came up with that I absolutely love because it's just so pretty is called papaya sunrise. And that one has alfalfa, beet pulp, flax. It's got papaya chunks in it, anise flavoring, which my horse just went crazy for. She loved it. And then it has some calendula and rose petals. And it's just the prettiest thing you can put in a bucket. Those rose petals. Petals make it just gorgeous.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:05:06-01:05:08]
And it would probably smell so nice.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:05:09-01:07:09]
Yeah, the anise makes it smell excellent. It smells really, really lovely. It's like a light licorice smell. Yeah. And horses just really like that one a lot. And that one's been fun. And so, like, they are awesome to... give to a picky eater. If they're like, okay, I've tried everything. He's not eating. Let me try something totally different. That's still safe for their microbiome because it's hay and some fibers and a small amount of toppings. I don't put in a whole lot of topping. It's not like a ton of flavoring itself. And that can be useful for that. It's good for... I like to... I think I'm going to start calling it the unofficial... Birthday cake base for Instagram horses. People like to use it a lot as a base for the horse's birthday cake, which I just love. It's just so funny to see. It's perfect for going to shows with and like giving them like, hey, you did a great job. Here's this mash to help rehydrate you after a class. So it's just been a fun way to. think about treating a horse in a different way I didn't find anything like it online so I just made it because I couldn't find hay pallets as a base for a mash anywhere it was just like barley and oats and things like that and I was like I don't want that I want something different um And it's been a lot of fun. A lot of people like it. Like I said, I've launched in March 2023 with that. And then I went through after my horse died September 2023, I just kind of like retreated into a shell for a while. Um, so I haven't been as brave about making that company go further as I could be. And I'm starting to, to do that.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:07:09-01:07:13]
Hmm. Well, you've just now said it to a lot of people.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:07:13-01:07:20]
Uh, so, uh, yeah, so that'll be fun. And PS it's just me.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:07:21-01:07:29]
Yeah. Let's not overwhelm Connie with too many orders, but also like maybe order. That's super cool.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:07:31-01:08:51]
I'm starting to go to some local horse shows in Colorado and start getting a different audience that way. But, you know, I try to be myself as much as I can. I don't know who else to be, so I'll just be myself. On, like, Instagram, like, I have, like, a pretty good community, and they, like, have responded really well to that, which has been a lot of fun. And I just... I think it's just like a really fun thing for your horse that's not a huge change to their microbiome. The max size that I provide is 14 ounces, which is just two ounces under the recommendation of no more than one pound of a new feed per day. So you can safely feed a whole 14 ounce or you can split it up into multiple feedings. I also make what I call a mini mash flight. I love it. a sampler of some of our most popular ones. I also have a couple of flavors that don't have any additional sugars and starches in them, such as no sugar mint, which is chia seeds and peppermint leaves basically, and some hay pellets and beet pulp. So on the beach is also suitable for metabolic horses at fed at a, at a small rate. So it's just like something cute.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:08:52-01:08:59]
I love it. It's so cool. So cool. Yeah, I hope that you keep going with it because I think it's really cool.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:08:60-01:09:06]
Thank you. Thank you. I went for the trademark, so I'm going to keep going with it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:09:06-01:10:04]
Nice. Nice. Awesome. With everything, I've been asking this question to all of our guests because I just think it's an important discussion point and something for everybody to be sharing their perspective. There's obviously, I mean, I want to say there's lots of change happening in the industry. And I say that with the fact that I feel like I also live in a little bit of a bubble that, you know, how we can kind of customize our Instagram feeds and things to show us the things that we want to see. So I'm seeing this beautiful change within the industry. And I'm also aware that I'm not exposing myself to the other side of the industry. So I say that with a grain of salt. With your perspective, what is your hope for the future of the equestrian industry?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:10:05-01:13:18]
So I hope is that more horse owners ask why people do things like talk more about, OK, why is my horse managed this way? OK, why is he being fed that? Because realistically, we're we're in a place where the majority of horse owners board. And we can't make massive changes. You know, sometimes you also have to use the grain that's provided at the barn or or whatever it may be. But you should ask why and then really lean into the answer that you've received. I really hope that horse owners start to think more about the evolutionary needs of horses, not just the societal convenient need of horses that has been tradition. I think tradition is well and good and just can stay over there away from me because I would much rather see horses. be kept in a way that supports their species-specific requirements. And that way they can live to their best potential by being the best thing they know how is to be a horse. And there's different ways to achieve that. I don't think there's one specific management style that's better than others necessarily, depending on the horse and their circumstances. So I'm not going to say that all horses have to be thrown out onto a ginormous pasture and a herd of 40. That's just not feasible. Also, my horse would have hated that because she liked to have three or four friends. Right. But we should consider the horse's lived experience whenever we're thinking about management practices for them. And horse owners need to be aware of what's happening in those management choices. There are a lot of barns that are full service and the horses are managed that way. And I hope that those full-service barns are also taking into consideration what horses need to live in a way that best supports their evolutionary design. So I think we're getting there. I, too, kind of live in a little bit of a bubble because... see everything and look at everything. And I tend to attract people with the same sort of mindset in regards to horse care. And I just hope that that can continue. I do see a shift in the younger trainers on Instagram, like much younger than me that are already coming up through with like keeping in mind the like different principles of understanding learning theory and understanding evolutionary needs for horses. And that's becoming more prevalent in our industry, I think. Yeah. And I think that's good. Yeah. So I hope that we just continue to question things and to look at science-based research when it comes to caring for our horses so we can best support them to be the best they can be.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:13:19-01:15:34]
Yeah, absolutely. One other thing that I want to say, and this is slightly horse industry, but more so equestrian industry, like speaking to the human side of it as well, is that I have always, like growing up, another barn was your rival. If they weren't at your barn, it was like, You didn't like them. Your coach didn't like them. Like it was one of those things where it was just always, everybody was against everybody. If they weren't your discipline, it was just always, it felt very competitive. And I feel like we're getting away from that where the industry is starting to be a little bit more, hey, I see you and I see you trying and I commend you versus, hey, you're not doing that perfectly. So let me call you out on it. Yeah. And I want to specifically highlight you. We have a mutual friend, Maddie Hauser, the blonde in the bay, who's been on the podcast here twice now. And she just went through a very traumatic experience with her horse, Blue, who's currently still in it. And without a moment's hesitation... you jumped in and started a GoFundMe. You were showcasing how they can be supporting, you know, the very large vet bill that Maddie and her husband are, are currently being presented with and will continue to be presented with. Um, and it is a sign of your integrity. And, um, I just want to really commend you on that. Um, It did not go unnoticed, and I think that it is more of what the industry needs is the true hashtag horse girl supporting horse girl energy. And so I just want to shout you out for that, that that is also what the horse and equestrian industry needs.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:15:35-01:17:15]
Well, and quite frankly, I have a lot of, like, I felt so horrible when I saw what was happening with my friend. And I've actually had several friends go through horses passing away in the past week. And I wish I could start a GoFundMe for every single one. And I just wanted to help. you know at first I I started saying okay guys buy her t-shirts um and then and then someone said I just want to send her money is there an option for that I'm like there can be let me figure that out yeah um so that was the impetus for that is is someone saying hey can I can I donate directly and I was like well I'm not going to send you for Venmo but let me see what I can do um And I would hope that someone could do that for others because, quite frankly, the cost of living is still exponential. There are very little options when it comes to the average horse owner for caring for their horse with care. colic surgery, with ICU care of multiple weeks, most of us barely have money in the bank. We're already in debt on our credit cards. That's just the reality of living right now. So if we all can pitch in to help lift each other up a little bit, maybe we can help save more horses. Maybe we can help save more humans. Yeah. I just don't think it's right to commend me for that because I just feel like it's something that should be done.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:17:17-01:17:21]
Yeah. Well, I still want to witness you.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:17:21-01:17:23]
I'm still going to do it anyways.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:17:23-01:17:23]
That's fine.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:17:23-01:18:29]
Do what you want. We have four. Oh, go ahead. Something else I was thinking about in the industry is that when you said talking about rival barns, this triggered this thought, is that there can be a strong sense of loyalty to a specific trainer, specific methodology, specific barn. And I think that's a detriment. As someone who is an incredibly loyal person in general, I have hurt myself by being loyal to others before, not necessarily within the equestrian industry, but in different areas. And I think it's important to note that it's okay if something doesn't feel right to trust yourself. And to say, thank you very much. I learned what I needed to learn from you. Yeah. And find someone else. We should never hold someone above questioning.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:18:31-01:18:46]
Absolutely. I love that you added that on. Thank you. We have four rapid fire questions that we ask every guest. The first thing that pops in your head, do you have a motto or a favorite saying?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:18:47-01:18:50]
Right now, the saying is I can do hard things.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:18:51-01:18:51]
That's a good one.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:18:53-01:18:53]
I keep repeating it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:18:56-01:18:59]
Who has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:19:01-01:19:09]
So I would say the most influential person that I've had hands-on experience of working under would be Jess Roberts with Harmonize Horsemanship.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:19:10-01:19:19]
Who we had on the podcast. Lovely. Lovely human. And also that was Connie's recommendation. She reached out to me and was like, you have to have Jess on the podcast. So thank you.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:19:19-01:19:53]
You did. Jess is one of those wonderful people. of a human being who can really see what's going on in a horse's existence and what's going on in a human's heart at the same time. And the way she was able to teach me how to understand feel and energy exchange and dive into liberty work with horses helped me to develop my relationship with Daisy. So I will always be thankful for that. Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:19:56-01:19:56]
Okay.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:19:57-01:19:59]
I'm good. All right.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:20:00-01:20:05]
The third, if you could give equestrians one piece of advice, what would it be?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:20:08-01:20:21]
It would be to question things more. I know we talked about that, but just ask why a little more often and expect to get a thorough answer. And if you don't get a thorough answer, investigate why.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:20:24-01:20:26]
And the last one, please complete this sentence.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:20:26-01:20:30]
For me, horses are my deepest purpose.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:20:33-01:20:37]
Connie, where can people find more about what you offer and how to connect with you?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:20:38-01:22:06]
Yes. So Instagram is my first mode of existence. So I have three different accounts. You can find me for my nutrition information. You can find me on 17 hand equine nutrition. So that's one seven hand equine nutrition. You can follow the forage forage at the forage forage. Please put the the forage forage. Or you can follow little bits of my daily life or my past history with Daisy at Connie in Colorado. You can also look at my website, 17handequine.com, so 17handequine.com, to reach out to set a discovery call with me. I'm happy to provide a free 30-minute discovery call with potential clients to see if we are the best fit to work together. You can find the Forage Porridge at... www.theforageporage.com I'm also on Facebook. I don't use Facebook as often, but I regrettable joined it. You're not on Facebook. And then for any nutrition inquiries, you can email me at 17handequine at gmail.com 17handequine at gmail.com

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:22:11-01:22:31]
Awesome. We'll put them in the show notes as well so that people can find it there. This has been such an informative episode. I've enjoyed it so much, not only just for the information, but also for you and for your heart and just the person that you are. I've really enjoyed it. So thank you so much.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:22:31-01:22:37]
Thank you so much for having me. There's so much more we could talk about. I know. I apologize if I went off the tangent.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:22:37-01:22:41]
We might have to do a second episode just as a heads up.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:22:42-01:22:46]
Sounds good. Well, thank you so much, Danielle. This has been a joy.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:22:48-01:23:21]
Thank you. Thank you. Until next time, be kind to yourself, your horses and others.

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