#69 How horse trainers can work less and make more profit with Baylee Summer

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:00:02-00:00:06]
On this episode, we're talking with Bailey Summer, a marketing coach for ethical horse trainers.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:00:07-00:00:16]
You know, life just guided me down this path of following what was feeling really good and what was working and what really kind of lit my soul on fire.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:00:17-00:00:52]
Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from WeHorse. My name is Danielle Kroll and I'm your host. Bailey Summer is a marketing and business strategist. She works with ethical horse trainers and helps them create, launch, and sell out online programs so they can work less while making more profit and impact. Her goal is to help them create profitable businesses by leveraging social media. And by the way, Bailey created a free download for you to kickstart your 2025 social media marketing. So be sure to scroll down to the show notes after the episode and download it. So now let's get started with the episode.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:00:54-00:00:56]
Bailey, welcome to the WeHorse podcast.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:00:56-00:01:11]
I'm so excited to chat with you. And it's currently January right now. It's early January when we're recording this, and it's the middle of January when this is going to be published. And this is just such a perfect time of the year to have this exact conversation. So welcome. I'm super excited to chat.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:01:12-00:01:16]
Thank you. Yes, I agree. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:01:16-00:01:23]
Awesome. So how did you get into marketing and business strategy? Let's start there. And then I'll ask the second part. How did you get started?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:01:24-00:01:39]
Yeah, so I really kind of fell into marketing and business strategy, or I could say I was called into it. Horses really came first for me, and then I connected marketing and business to them.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:01:39-00:01:54]
Okay. What gave you that idea to add in the horses? Because you could have just, you know, had your horses on the side and did something completely different with marketing. What gave you the idea to combine the two of them and work specifically with horse trainers?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:01:55-00:05:05]
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So I kind of have that age old story of being obsessed with horses from when I was really young. Um, even though I came from a non horsey family, um, my parents told me I'd never own a horse while living under the roof because they're just too expensive. And, um, I ended up getting a job by like 12 years old. And because of that, I got to have my own horse by 14. And really, horses were just my entire life growing up. They were just everything to me. And I could only imagine a life of being a horse trainer for myself. So I went to a two-year college for an equine management degree. And I started training horses professionally by 19. And I had gotten all my clients from, well, local people like at the bar and I was at or whatever, but mostly I had gotten my clients from posting on social media. So I started learning marketing strategy just from like free information that I was finding online and ended up being really powerful. At the same time, I was studying online courses by Mustang Maddy, an incredible trainer and clinician and educator in the ethical training space. And I went to a clinic of hers, and that's where the two of us got connected. So a couple months later, after we had met, she noticed the post I was making on social media, and she liked what she saw. And she hired me on as her social media manager from that point. And then my whole life changed when she put me through one of the best business coaching programs on the market available at the time. and by Rachel Bell, who's still a friend and mentor of mine today. And that's really when everything took off. So I was able to help Maddie like 10x her course sales and double clinic sales multiple times over, like each and every time. I became her full-time marketer and business strategist. And that's really where I gained tons of experience and really built out my portfolio. So to really answer your question of how this happened is it just, you know, life just guided me down this path of following what was feeling really good and what was working and what really kind of lit my soul on fire. And so now Maddie is kind of on her own, a new different magical adventure. And I've since gone full time as a business coach for Ethical Horse Trainers, which has really been one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. It's really humbling and such an honor to help horse trainers with so much talent and skill and heart for horses. It's good to finally help them, have them finally have an income that matches their level of mastery. So that's kind of my backstory of how I got to where I am now.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:05:07-00:06:27]
I love that. And I have so many questions based on that. I also love the fact that you were able to combine your work with a passion of yours. I feel like that is the, it's like the living the dream, the idea of going to work every day and doing something that you enjoy, but also combining it with something that you're passionate about. So that's, that's super cool. I know a lot of people that do marketing within the horse industry and they end up getting caught up in the traditional equestrian industry, selling product and gear and, things like that, that they don't use themselves or feel comfortable using on their horses. And it's, it's inspiring to see the other side of it. Somebody that's, you know, working with the side of the industry that, you know, you love and that you're called towards, um, and you're I hope that everybody listening that may be, you know, on the latter side of who I was speaking to can hear this and, you know, be introduced to you and what you do and feel inspired that you can go towards the side of the industry that you're most passionate about and make a living doing it.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:06:28-00:06:32]
Yes. Yes. Can and should. It's a better business practice anyway.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:06:32-00:06:41]
Whether you're a social media person or you're a trainer, like, you know, you can go towards the side of the things that is calling towards you and, and find your people.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:06:42-00:06:45]
Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I agree.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:06:46-00:06:50]
What do you think that most horse trainers are missing with their marketing?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:06:51-00:09:01]
Yes. Okay. I really love this question because, Because the answer is so similar to the skill of horse training. And that answer is principles. In every field of study and every expertise, there are a handful of principles that are the foundation of what actually works. So principles. There are endless amounts of tactics in horse training and marketing and anything that you do. But the principles of marketing, sales and business strategy, to be specific, remain the same because they're really based in human psychology. Just like how we tick as humans and evolution is slow. So it probably won't even change for millennia, but certainly not for our lifetime. These principles are tried and true. So they remain constant no matter how much the trends and the tactics are changing. So when you know the principles of marketing, you stop feeling so overwhelmed by keeping up with the latest algorithm changes, trending audios, new funnel strategies and all that stuff. That's just too much to learn, especially when you're busy being a horse trainer. Every time I talk to a small business owner and I say I do marketing, they're like, oh, I need to post on social media. But then I'd have to scroll and like and like know what's trending. And thank God that's not the case at all. You can really market from the heart and from a place of authenticity when you're leveraging the principles as your base. You know, you start from what's true and what's what works and then you just infuse yourself into all of that. And then marketing becomes really simple when you learn the principles over the tactics. So. That's why I'm always yapping about a few core concepts of business on social media, on my account, because when my clients and followers do take them seriously and integrate the principles into their work, the number in their bank account goes up. And that is what I'm here to help people do.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:09:03-00:10:06]
Yeah, I'm sure that speaks a lot to, you know, the horse trainers, the boarding barn owners, the X, Y, Z, you name it, horse people within the industry, because as we all know, horses take a lot of time. And the last thing many people want to do is then sit down at the end of the night and be like, OK, so now I have to think now I've used my brain. Now I have to sit down and post like, what am I going to do? Um, so yeah, having like, like you had said, the core principles, I'm sure is very intriguing to a lot of people. Yeah. So speaking of social media, a lot of people and you named it just earlier as well is saying like, well, then I'd have to scroll. Well, then I'd have to actually be on social media. A lot of people and I see it on social media. Ironically enough, I hear it, you know, in conversation. I feel it myself as well is this desire to actually pull away from social media. And so when you hear this, what is your response?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:10:07-00:13:51]
Yeah. Oh, again, love this question. I totally hear this. And yeah, I have an answer. So social media is, it's like this immense source of power that's just at our fingertips. And as they say, with great power comes great responsibility. So I choose to tap into the power of social media by using it for my business. But I have a very strong sense of responsibility and strictness with myself as it relates to social media as well. And this dynamic feels really useful and really empowering for me. So I'll go into that. little bit more detail about what I mean when I say that. I think the real reason social media feels so bad and is so destructive is because of the way that we use it. So mindlessly scrolling, constantly comparing ourselves to others, especially subconsciously. We often aren't even aware of it, how much comparison is going on and how much that holds us back from showing up and just being authentic and being seen online. We're also outsourcing our creativity to those trends that I talked about and becoming this hive mind of content creation. And I say all this with the strong caveat that there's absolutely no shame in behaving this way online because social media, I think as we all know by now, has been meticulously designed to get us to behave in this way. So if listeners, if you're in this position and you're feeling worn out by social media, but also like hopelessly addicted to it, it's not your fault. And also with all this danger and this risk of the power of social media as a tool, there is this potential to generate an abundance of income by leveraging it. So my solution is, is to create more than I consume and use social media rather than letting it use me. So for me, tangibly, what that looks like is I almost never scroll. I'm almost never scrolling. I'm the least up to date on trends. As a marketer, I don't know what people are posting. I use social media to post content that helps people, helps my ideal client. And And, um, helps me to get clients. That's what I'm doing online. I'm sharing, I'm offering, you know, my work and I'm getting clients. Um, I'll check on my current clients that I have. And then I interact with a few people that I want to work with, um, in the future. And I will tune into one to two creators who really feed my soul. And I get a lot from consuming their content. And then I delete the app every single day. I delete the Instagram app after work every day, which is excessive. And it is... People literally laugh at me in my face when I tell them this, but it's so helpful because I cannot accidentally fall into the scroll hole of what I know is going to steal away my life force and my attention. So I had to commit to this really strict regimen because I know how easy it is for me to fall into the scroll hole. And this arrangement... has been just deeply empowering for me. And it's something that I would encourage anyone business owner or not to try it out and see how it feels and how it goes, because you get the best of both worlds. You get to use this tool that can allow you to make a living doing what you love and what you're passionate about and not be bogged down by it. So that's, that's how I handle the wild world of social media.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:13:52-00:16:03]
You said a few things there that I just want to, um, go back to and highlight number one is that you use social media. You don't let it use you. And I was like, Oh, when you said that is, it's so good. It's, it's so true that, you know, like you said, it's a tool and a lot of us are falling into this pattern of letting it use us. So yeah, very, very good point. Quote. Maybe we'll have to use that as our quote that we like poll and promote the episode. The other thing is you said you weren't up to date on trends. And I find that so interesting, like you said, as a social media marketer, because the whole thing is that so many people think, oh, I have to stay up to date on trends. And it's like, no, it goes back to exactly what you said earlier. It's strategy. It has nothing to do with are you doing the latest dance? Are you like trending audio or whatever it is that, you know, people are doing? It's like it has nothing to do with these trends. It has everything to do with the strategy and the content and everything. the way that you're showing up. So I love that you said that. And then the final thing is how you delete the app. So I use a thing it's called one sec. So O N E one and then S E C sec. And then you, link that up, I guess is what you would do is with the, um, the automations. Now I don't think there's an Android version of this. I believe there's just an iPhone. Don't quote me on that. Just last time I checked, my husband's an Android user. I was trying to get him hooked up on it. And I was like, Oh, sorry, you're just going to have to have willpower. Um, but it makes you take a deep breath. So when you go to open and you can do it for anything, I do it for my email on my phone. I do it for Instagram. And those are really the only two apps on my phone that That I need it for. But when you click on it, a screen comes up and it goes up for an inhale and it goes down for an exhale. And then it says, do you really want to open this? And then you can either click the button. Yes, I do. Or no, I don't.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:16:03-00:16:14]
And it really changed my whole habit because I found always just like I would pick up my phone and be like, how am I on Instagram?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:16:14-00:16:47]
How did I click this? And so it really made me be more conscious of do I actually want to go on this? Usually the answer is no. And then you slowly but surely just lose the habit of clicking on it. I think it's so smart. And like you said, deleting the app, whatever it is that you need to do, it's just repatterning your brain so that it's not such an automation to doing these things. And then you lose 20 minutes, 30 minutes, whatever it may be, being caught in this vortex of the scroll.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:16:47-00:17:26]
Yes, 100%. Yeah, we don't have that kind of time. We don't have that kind of time. And there's, of course, the temptation of like, oh, social media is relaxing. I just get to zone out and not. and just not have to think about anything. But we're processing such a vast amount of information at any given time when we're scrolling. And so I've never felt more peaceful than I do than when I'm extremely strict about my usage on there. So I love that. I love the just like training yourself, the repatterning of your mind to not subconsciously and automatically reach for that little dopamine hit that we get from our phones. So that's good.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:17:26-00:17:44]
Absolutely. So continuing with this trend of social media, trend, no pun intended, a lot of people think that the amount of people that follow them, so their follower numbers, is the most important metric. Why do you believe that large followings are not always necessary?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:17:44-00:22:26]
Okay, I'm so obsessed with this topic. I'm stoked about this topic. So the number of followers that you have is, especially as an educator of some kind or a coach or a trainer, is nearly completely unrelated to the number in your bank account, to the amount of revenue that you actually earn and profit for that matter. So I've spoken to dozens of trainers in this industry who have huge followings, and most of them are still struggling to make ends meet financially. It looks really good. They're doing really well. And they're doing good work so much of the time, but they're struggling and they're scared. They're worried for the future for their horses, too. So, yeah, just as an example of like, you know, there's that truth that there are so many people with big followings and struggling to make ends meet. And then there's the inverse of that, which is myself and my clients who have tiny little audiences and we're doing great. So I myself have under 800 followers on Instagram. I mean, that's like nothing in this world. in the social media world. And I make a healthy living solely through social media marketing. That is how I get my clients is through social media. I have zero financial support from a partner, spouse or family, and I can comfortably afford my horses. Some expensive hobbies, namely gymnastics, is like my obsession lately. And I financially support several of my loved ones as well. And all of this is with 800 followers on Instagram. So there's some proof from just my story. But a couple of my clients just recently had really successful launches with under a thousand followers themselves. I'm talking like one of my clients made 12K in one month as a side gig. It was like her third job, and she has around 800 followers on social media. So all that to say, I think the most important performance indicator as a business is profit. So not the most important value, by the way. For me, morality comes first, but purely talking numbers, like a metric that we're using to look at success, Actually making money after expenses is the best indicator of success and the changes that we all want to see in our life. And it's really not followers and making a profit, like you said earlier, comes down to strategy and not the number of followers. So I have a little tidbit to share with your listeners. So if you have a small following. The best thing you can do, let's say you have a small following and you're a horse trainer or you can offer some kind of education. The best thing you can do is to have a high ticket coaching offer. So high ticket means that you charge at least a thousand dollars for your package for the package of your services. And then you can have just a handful of online clients and make a comfortable living, like five to 10 clients total. And then you're going to be doing really well. I'm a huge advocate for coaching, by the way, because it's really transformational. So Online courses, for example, give you a lot of information, but without feedback and accountability and support, the students of the courses don't always experience the change that they're really looking for. That said, courses, of course, have their place and purpose. I have marketed courses quite a bit, and there's so many that I'm a huge proponent of, but they're best leveraged by people who do have big followings already. Because they can offer education to the masses and not have to get down to the nitty gritty with the coaching. And that all becomes possible because they can charge a lower rate for their product and get a high volume of sales. If you have a small following, it's going to be really hard to get hundreds of sales with a lower ticket offer, like $50 to $900. You need a lot of sales to actually make a living. So it's going to be really tough to do with a small following. But getting five to ten high-paying clients through coaching, because you're actually providing that transformation, so it's worth that amount of money. It's totally doable with a small following. And really anyone who's masterful at their craft and loves to help people, which is a lot of trainers that I know, you can do that and you don't have to become an influencer first. So it really takes the barrier down. The barrier to entry really lowers when you don't have to be an influencer to become a successful business owner.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:22:27-00:22:57]
Yeah. And also it's reassuring that it's not like, once again, having to follow the trends, having to show up constantly on social media, things like that. It's like, yeah, I mean, you said it best. There's, there's so much wisdom in what you just said there. Um, I hope that people can, you know, pause, rewind and take, well, they can, um, pause, rewind and take notes. Um, because what you just said, there was so much gold in that. Um, yeah, my head is, it's like, Ooh, very good idea.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:22:58-00:23:33]
Yes. Yeah. I love, love coaching for everybody. Even people with huge followings can really leverage coaching as well because they can scale with group coaching a little bit. And it's the same thing. It can offer this insane transformation for a high level of profitability and their clients are happy. They're happy. It's just so good. But if you're a course creator through and through, then yeah, then get your audience and then do it. But yeah, Yes, it's so good that we don't all have to be content creators in this day and age. We can just connect with people. We can just like talk to people and reach out and and have small followings and have our little nooks on the Internet.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:23:33-00:24:00]
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And also it lowers the barrier to entry in terms of you look at some content creators today and you're like, I don't I wouldn't even know how to video that. Like it's so professional seeming. But it's like, you know, you don't have to do that. You don't have to go and buy expensive gear or, you know, have all these different transitions and, you know, all of the things that doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to take you a day to post something up.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:24:01-00:24:10]
Totally. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. Your smartphone is plenty. Yeah. Most of us have. So again, low, yeah. Low barrier to entry is so good.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:24:11-00:24:17]
This is I'm sure one of the most common things that you hear.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:24:19-00:36:17]
when somebody says I don't know what to post or I don't know what to say on social media what should I do what is your suggestion for that yes it is it is one of those common questions because again it kind of gets to the root of like well what's the there's a principle behind what do I post that's marketing right what do I post is marketing so um it is one of the biggest struggles people have and usually why they wind up talking to me in general so um yeah so I love I love this question and I also love the answer because again, it's not, it's not super complicated. It's very cool. It's very connection based. So I have two things and I'll start with the first. The second one, I have a lot of, I have a lot of thoughts on the second one, but the first thing is that your goal is to know your ideal client deeper than they know themselves. So Marketing 101 is that you have an ideal client. You have a very, very specific type of person that you're speaking to and that you can help. So the way to identify your ideal client is to look inward and say, what work do I love doing the most? And what can I help? What can I create the most transformation in? What's the work I can do that's going to change lives and that I'm best at? Then you find the people who need that specific kind of support and you get to know them on a level that they don't even often think about themselves, like that kind of depth. So I do this by conducting really detailed phone call interviews with the people that I know I can help best. And I ask in, again, in great detail about their tangible problems, about the emotional experiences that they're having as they face these problems and the lack of reaching the ultimate result that they want. And I want to know about their goals and desires. So for you as a business owner or someone, you know, listener as a business owner, what Find out who it is that you help best and then just ask them everything you can think of to to get to know them on this really deep emotional level. It's called psychographics based research rather than demographics. You get to know who they are as a human being. And then you create all your content based on this one type of person. So you're going to create posts as if you're writing to this singular human. This is called having an ideal client avatar. So there's an ideal client and then the avatar is like this caricature of a person that you can best serve. And then you're going to write every single post for this one person. human being. And it's amazing what comes from that level of detail and personalization, even if people don't relate to, people are really worried about, people tend to get worried about alienating people who don't perfectly fit. But it's amazing what happens when you talk in great detail. It's incredible what people can relate to from that. So, That's step number one is knowing who your ideal client is on a really deep level. Once you know your ideal client with vivid, colorful detail, more than they know themselves, there are four categories of posts that you can use to systematically turn followers or even just strangers on the Internet, not even followers, to turn strangers on the Internet into clients. So here's what that looks like. Category number one. is growth content. This is the kind of content that actually can grow your audience and just get new eyeballs on your work. So as we've established, not necessarily the most important post type, but there is a time and a place for growing your following on social media. So if your goal, like let's say you're not selling anything and your goal right now is just to get some more followers who are very aligned with your work and are potential clients for you. The first thing you can do is you can talk about your philosophy and your values and belief systems. So you may notice opinions tend to go very viral online. It's just how we are as human beings. But yeah, so so you can get. People who are aligned with your work through that and also just get more eyeballs on your content by talking about your beliefs. And the more boldly you state them, the more traction you're going to get, honestly. So just being super real about what you believe in and what's really true for you. The next post type under this growth content that can help get eyeballs on your work is lifestyle posts. So this is what the influencers are posting. But as a business owner, you can be very strategic about it where you basically just embody the lifestyle that your ideal clients want to live. And then you just show people that it's possible and that you have created this result within yourself. So you establish yourself as an expert in your field just by showing your life. and showing the ways that you have what your ideal clients want help with. You can also just share personal stories about your life and lessons, you know, again, like just that influencer stuff that we've all seen and kind of know. And you can also do really short form education, like a little quick hit of education that is very maybe surprising or intriguing. These are the kinds of things that can get eyeballs on your content. The next category of content is what I would call nurture content. So many people try to have a business with only growth-style content, but if you're missing this category of content, you're not going to be able to actually authentically and in a natural way grow. guide people towards a sale with you. So nurture content is talking about your ideal client's pain points. So in vivid detail, talking about what they're struggling with and then offering solutions. And you can also think about these as empathy posts, just being really empathetic towards your ideal clients. And the more seen, heard, and understood people feel, the more likely they are to dive in and start working with you. The next part of nurture content is a little training posts like give people a step by step process that they can follow to get a result today. And they're going to try it out and get a result and be like, OK, if this is possible with this person's free content, I know there's so much more within the coaching process. And even if they don't try it out and they just see the result of or they see like the step by step process, they're going to have a lot more understanding of your work and be able to trust you more as like understanding a layout of how the results happen. Lastly, is an education type post where you can talk about theory and all just the important stuff that can get your client from where they are now to where they want to be. Okay, and then we have category three, and this is conversion content. And this is like the scary type of content that people don't want to post. Conversion content is where you're actually selling your offer, and you're talking about what it is that you do, who you do it for, and that you have something for sale. So conversion content, the number one thing that people are missing when they try to sell something online is they're not necessarily selling a vision for the future. So this is a really good post type to use when you're starting to invite people to your program, where you just basically paint a very vivid portrait of what's possible for clients when they begin working with you. And this is so important because people are ultimately paying money not for The deliverables, like they don't necessarily care how many modules or how many lessons or da da da. It's good to know. And people do want to know about it. But what's so much more important to them is what's possible for me if I make this investment, if I take this leap. And the best way to do that ethically is just by sharing what you've done in the past for yourself and what you've helped other people do in the future. So you don't have to promise them that they're going to get this very highly specific result because that's just not possible with horses. But you can share with them what your work has made possible for others and really be very clear about what that looks like. Um, as if you're writing a book, I read a lot of, um, like fantasy, which really helps in that vivid description. So that's, that's really fun. So the next type of conversion content is where you basically take any of the nurture type posts where you talk about pain points, a little step-by-step training or an educational point. And then you just put a call to action at the end and invite people into your program. Um, the last one is just outlining your offer. Um, this is what most people do. When they start to sell something, what's included, how long it is, who it's for, all the details and the nitty gritty. But doing so in a compelling way really helps. So sprinkling in some vision for the future is going to be really helpful, even in those posts where you're talking about the details. OK, that was a lot of information, but I have one more post category that I want to talk about. And this is really the most important one. So I really have to share it. The last thing that you want to post on social media in order to get clients is called in the marketing world. It's called social proof. So social proof is testimonials, other people talking about your work. And it can also be like you demonstrating the success that you've had. So let's say you're a newer trainer. And you've had tons of personal success, but no clients just yet to like rant and rave about how amazing you are. Then just you can use your own story and journey and results to until you have clients to speak for you. But. The more you post testimonials, like screenshots of people talking about your work, either on social media or within a coaching program, for example, and then underlining the key, most important points so that people's eyes are drawn straight to the result that they can get through working with you. The more of this, the better. You can post social proof every single day, and it will be very good. I know of a... educator in the space who basically she only posts like growth content and social proof. And she's just like rocking and rolling. She's doing great. So whatever you do, don't skip this. It's probably one of the hardest ones to do because you have to create it. Like you have to go, you have to go find it. You have to track it down and you have to take the time to every single time someone praises you, you have to like screenshot it and quote it and put it somewhere. Um, No matter how good of a marketer you are, no matter how good you say you are, people can't trust you unless you have results to show for it that you can actually demonstrate, which is pretty fair from the consumer end. The consumer needs to know that this has worked for other people before. So showing that all the time, all the time, all the time is going to be really helpful. And what's interesting about social proof is a lot of times people, people will kind of tune out because if you, especially if you post it all the time, you might actually get lower reach, like less eyeballs on your content, lower reach, but your sales will go up. And that's actually very common in general is that there's an inverse correlation between reach growth and reaching growth together is inversely correlated to sales. So don't worry if you're reaching, everything goes down when you're doing social proof and conversion content, because that means money is on the way to your bank account. So that was my little mini training for you guys. I hope it was clear and organized enough to understand.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:36:17-00:36:43]
There was so much value in that. And I said earlier about people going back and taking notes and it's like, OK, now really go back and take notes. I have a question based on that. So all of that, of course, was it was quite personal content, sharing stories, sharing, you know, your own transformation, things like that. What do you say when people say, I'm just going to hire somebody else to do this for me?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:36:46-00:39:45]
Okay. There is a time and place. There is a time and place. I do some marketing services for people. However, for the most part. If you are, okay, I have a few points. For one thing, a personal brand is one of the most powerful ways to possibly market anything. So if you look around on the internet at who's selling you stuff, a lot of time it's influencers who are getting sponsorships. And that's because brands, like business brands, have to pay personal brands to get their products in front of people. So Being a human being on social media is actually like super high value and very important. So and very just powerful. So leaning into who you are as a human being and sharing that with other people and just being a real person is one of the best ways to get clients online. Because they feel like they can trust you. And so there's two main dangers of outsourcing social media marketing to somebody else. And that is that number one, if you don't already know about social media marketing. You are most likely going to hire someone. I've seen it over and over again. You will probably hire someone who is not as skilled as perhaps they say they are, and you would have no way of knowing because you don't know the principles of marketing. So I've seen it a lot with horse trainers who have some level of success. They're doing good. And then they're like, OK, now I can stop doing social media and now I'm going to hire this out. And then they end up spending a ton of money on like a virtual assistant, for example, who are not marketers, by the way. It's a whole different ballgame. But the higher virtual assistant who says they can market for them and then they just waste a lot of money. So that's issue number one. And then issue number two, of course, is going back to the power of the personal brand. If you're not making personal content, you're really missing out on that power. And it's just truly and not everyone likes to post on social media. In fact, I am one of them. It's not like my. I am very averse to having the camera pointed at me. It is a strange experience for me. I grew up like very I was grew up in like a borderline cult, a religious cult. So having like having the turning the camera around to face myself feels very strange. and feels vain. But when you can just connect that to the way that other people get to connect with you when you show up as a real human being on the internet, and then also connect that experience to making money, it becomes a lot easier. It becomes a lot more fun and exciting to point the camera to yourself. And other people don't perceive it that way. It's kind of funny. Other people aren't looking at you talking direct to camera and thinking, wow, she's so self-absorbed. And if they are, that's a them problem. You're just offering value.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:39:47-00:40:56]
I would also think too, especially in the realm of like horse training, that is something if you are... promoting your own method or if you're promoting your own opinions, things like that, and then you outsource and you hire somebody else to do it, they may not share the exact same opinion as you and not that they would then ruin your... It's not like that. We're not worst case scenarioing this. It's more so just that there could be a less effective promotion of your content because it's not coming directly from... the way that you would say it or you would teach it or you would train it. Um, yeah, that's, you know, that's kind of the way that I would look at it too. It's like you go to a barn to have a lesson with a coach and they're like, Oh, well here, you know, I'm this other person's going to teach you today. It's like, well, they, they may not teach me the way that I hired you to teach me or I want you to teach me. Um, Yeah, there's a lot involved with outsourcing. You're like a personal brand, like you said.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:40:57-00:42:37]
Yeah, yeah. And there totally is a time and a place for outsourcing, but it really comes in levels. Like usually people in business are unaware of when to do what activities. So they're usually trying to do scaling tasks before they even have a proof of concept of their business. So this is a small tangent, but if you... If you have a business and you want to get clients on social media, then you need to have a proof of concept of your messaging. You need to be able to easily get clients on social media with organic marketing, like not using paid ads. And that needs to be effective and rocking and rolling before you start doing things like hiring a big team or paying for ads or outsourcing things because you're going to end up wasting money and wasting time. If you do work, and this is something I teach in my coaching programs about actually how to do this, because it is possible to scale to where you can essentially own the business and be the face of the business and have very little operation in the day to day. Most horse trainers don't even want that, but it is possible in any business. So it's all possible, but it does have to be done in a sequential way. Otherwise, you're just going to end up wasting a lot of money. There comes a time and place to really trust other people to help you in your business. That's 100 percent true. And a lot of people struggle with that. Like when they do reach success, they have a hard time outsourcing. And then other people haven't reached success yet and then outsource too soon. So there's a balance and there's a there's just like a very systematic process for how to go through this, which I recommend everyone learn if they're looking at like growing and scaling their business up.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:42:39-00:42:53]
That's a great point about, you know, people that build their business from the bottom up and then they don't want to let it go, like any part of it go. And then vice versa, the people that are like, I'm going to build this business, but I don't want part of this. So here you just handle it and then it doesn't really grow the way that it could have grown.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:42:53-00:42:59]
Yes, 100%. Yeah. Well said. You wrapped it up perfectly.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:42:59-00:43:20]
When you did the first part and you talked about the ideal client, I want to just really quickly go back to that for a second. And because you spoke so much about like really getting to know the client and really getting to know their wants, needs, desires. So in that case, there's a lot of curiosity involved.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:43:21-00:43:21]
Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:43:21-00:43:28]
And I'd like to know if you could talk a little bit about the importance of curiosity for business success.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:43:29-00:45:26]
Yeah, totally. Yeah. So when you think about it, money comes from other people. So other human beings have to hand over money in order to keep our business rolling. And because of that, becoming deeply, endlessly curious about the people that who we can help and who pay us as a result of helping them is really key. So when you learn about your ideal clients on a potent level, you can communicate your value to them effectively, which is marketing and sales. All marketing and sales is accurately and effectively communicating your value to them. And then you can also serve them impeccably. So you can only provide deep transformation to people when you know them inside and out. And curiosity is the first step to that. There are a lot of people who will build out an entire course before ever talking to someone who might go through it, which I totally get the instinct. It's just not... It's just not something we think about at first, but actually getting direct feedback and knowing the inner world of the people we're helping is so important to communicating and serving them. And when you serve them well, you also facilitate transformation. Like you actually make a difference in their life, which is the goal, which means word of mouth marketing. They're going to tell their people who are going to tell their people that. and your whole business starts blowing up with a wait list a mile long because people are obsessed with the way you helped them through understanding who they are and attentiveness to who they are. So curiosity, in my opinion, is essential in business, and you have to care about people, unfortunately. There's so many horse trainers who are like, I just want to train horses. I don't care about people. If you want to make good money, you probably have to care about the people who are paying you. And just start getting curious, and you can train yourself.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:45:26-00:45:56]
to be curious it doesn't have to come naturally you can you can make a very mindful and conscious decision to care and to be very curious although most empathetic people are like they can get down with the curiosity part anyway so can we talk a little bit about your decision to work specifically with ethical trainers not just horse trainers but ethical horse trainers Yeah, absolutely.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:45:57-00:46:59]
So I went to a two year college to earn an equine management degree, which essentially is just a horse training degree. So to complete that, I needed to do an internship with an established trainer in the industry. So what happened is I went to this reigned cow horse trainer who was really up and coming in the industry in my area. And really the only reason I got a position as the intern there is because my professors from my school strongly advocated for me. So it was a big deal that I went to work with him. He was really well respected and admired. So going into this Going into this experience, I had that kind of context about this person is a big deal. So I was then horrified to find that he was wildly and almost incomprehensively abusive to horses. I will spare the details for my fellow sensitive souls who are listening to this.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:46:59-00:47:00]
We appreciate that.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:47:01-00:48:45]
Yeah, I don't need to. We don't need to like. Yeah, anyway. We don't need a trauma dump, but it was really tragic to witness. It was really hard to watch. And before this, I had spent years softening the approaches that I had learned as a kid because I always had a tender heart. You know, I started out with the traditional approach. approach to horse training, which was very lacking in scientific understanding, how horses' minds worked. It was very, you know, the myths of dominance theory and all that stuff. So I was slowly kind of deconstructing that just to to fit more into who I was as a person. And I was really obsessed with riding horse bridalists and doing liberty work and all that. I got really into that kind of work, but I didn't actually fully commit to ethical training until I saw what goes on at the top, like at the top of the industry, the highest level of competitors. Once I saw what goes on there, I knew I wanted to know part of it. And I knew that was no longer a goal of mine to be to be like known in that way or to compete in that way. You know, I thought to myself, if that's what it takes, I'm out. I'm not doing this. So from that moment, I knew I had to be different as a trainer. And I did. And I was. And of course, that stuck with me so strongly that even as I moved away from horse training as a career, I knew I could only support ethical trainers with their businesses because I know what goes on behind the scenes of people who are not actively and consciously being science-based and ethical with their work.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:48:49-00:50:24]
There is this idea that it seems like if you compete or are, you know, more successful in your riding and training and things like that, that you are really harsh. And I'm loving the fact that we're seeing the trend in the industry that more and more people are turning to the ethical, um, side of horsemanship. And I mean, the worst thing in the world is seeing these videos come out of the abuse, um, And the other side of it, too, is being like, hey, that's no longer acceptable. And so until we see a change like we're not accepting that. So it's horrific seeing these videos and. there's a hope that we're going to start to see the industry change, that we will start to see people that are at the top, the top professionals begin to change. You know, you don't want it to be something as simple as, Oh God, I don't want to be exposed. But if that's what, you know, it forces the change and at least it forces the change. And then hopefully they see the other side of it. With your experience of both that and Now, your experience of working specifically with the ethical horse trainers that are doing this for the horse and also for the human. Let's be real. There's also a side of that that's doing it for the human, too. What's your hope for the future of the equestrian industry?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:50:26-00:52:13]
Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah. First, before I dive into that, I'll just say I'm under no illusion that every high performing horse trainer is going to be at that level of abuse or any level of abuse, really. Although it is kind of generally encouraged by the systems that are in place. So like you said, yeah. I hope and expect and trust really that we're really changing. So but my hope for the industry moving forward and really the mission with my work personally is to see ethical horse trainers, again, from my own lens, get really good at marketing and sales and. So that they are the ones who become the go-to experts in the industry. Nearly all of those, like the big online horsemanship type trainers that you see are good at marketing. And some are good trainers and some are not. But they're creating a shift in the industry because of their ability to communicate what they're doing and kind of spark this movement. And I'm here to help ethical trainers get notoriety, clients and work less so that they don't burn out so they can keep doing this work, which I believe ultimately will help lead to a more rapid shift. Because like you mentioned, we're already we're in the shift that's happening. There's so much awareness happening. But I would love to speed up the shift away from harmful and traditional tactics and towards ethical and science-based training for horses across the entire globe and just have that standard be entirely shifted so that we can start treating them well, these precious, precious creatures.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:52:15-00:52:36]
I love that. I absolutely love it. I always refer back. There was an episode with, it was Lockie Phillips' podcast, Emotional Horsemanship, and he had Sherry Salata on who, I can't remember her exact position, but she used to work with Oprah. And she said, she's like, I look out and the paddocks are filled with shamans.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:52:37-00:52:43]
And I was just like, oh, I remember I messaged Lockie and I was like, oh, and he's like, I know. Like, it was just...

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:52:44-00:52:59]
I loved it so much. And like you said, it's like looking out at these like incredibly wise, compassionate, empathetic, incredible animals, these shamans, like Sherry had said, and hoping that our industry changes to support them.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:52:60-00:53:02]
Yeah, absolutely. I love that.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:53:04-00:53:08]
We have four like rapid fire questions that we ask every podcast guest.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:53:09-00:53:10]
Okay.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:53:10-00:53:13]
The first one is, do you have a motto or a favorite saying?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:53:13-00:54:25]
I would say right now, my favorite saying, and this, this change is, it'll change every so often, but right now my favorite is easy choices make for a hard life and hard choices make for an easy life. So just to explain, expand on that a little bit, entrepreneurship requires a really intense level of self-mastery And I couldn't be more grateful for the opportunity it presents to become my best self in every possible way, even and especially when the choices I have to make are hard. The hardest choices I've ever made have ultimately brought me more peace and prosperity than anything else in my life. So when I'm facing a tough decision, whether it's financial, Whether it's saying no to a client that's unaligned or just getting up on time and starting my workday, it's always paid off really well for me. So that level of devotion and like self-discipline, I guess you could say, has been served me very well as someone working by myself with no one else to tell me to keep going.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:54:26-00:54:54]
I completely agree. This year, actually 2025 marks one decade of me being an entrepreneur and like a solopreneur. And I 100% echo your statement saying that it has been a wild ride and one of the hardest things I've ever done. And one of the most rewarding, like self growth things I could have done. Yeah, I completely agree with that. I think that's an awesome saying.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:54:55-00:54:56]
Yeah. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:54:57-00:54:60]
Who has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:54:60-00:55:33]
I would say to this day, it's still Maddie, Mustang Maddie. She's delved so deep into the mind, body and soul of horses. And she's been able to share that wisdom in a really detailed and systematic way in such an organized way that I haven't seen from many others. So I'll always be grateful for that, getting to learn from her, work under her from a training sense, and then for getting to work alongside her in her business as well.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:55:36-00:55:39]
If you can give equestrians one piece of advice, what would it be?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:55:39-00:56:34]
Hmm. I would say connection above all else. I think it's the meaning of life. I think we all came here as separate entities and souls. Like we have this experience of separation and So that we can understand the euphoria and the peace of oneness. I think that to fully experience something, oftentimes we need to know the opposite. You know, to know joy, we have to know grief. And I could go on and on about with all the feelings that we could feel. I just wrote a, like shared a post about that the other day. But when we... Connect. It's just never a waste of time. Connect with horses. Connect with yourself. And I think it's one of the greatest services we can do to ourselves and others.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:56:36-00:56:52]
That has been one of the most profound answers. I have like those hot feels in the back of my eyes right now. I just when you said to no joy, you must no grief. That has been that that's such a profound answer. Thank you for saying that.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:56:52-00:56:54]
Yeah. Thanks for hearing it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:56:55-00:56:59]
Last one. Please complete the sentence. For me, horses are...

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:57:03-00:57:57]
For me, horses are perfect teachers. They're so animal, so pure, so free of agenda. And as a result of that, how we act and who we are is what we get back from the horses. Of course, they're their own unique souls, but their behavior is always mirroring back to us how we make them feel. And I think every attuned and empathetic equestrian knows how valuable this feedback is for personal growth and discovery. I think that it's the most honest form of teaching that we can get because it's just unobstructed by anything but this like pure, sweet animal soul who's just trying to make it in this world.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:57:57-00:58:05]
Yeah. Yeah, choosing to be both an entrepreneur and a horse person is like throwing yourself into the fire.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:58:05-00:58:05]
It's a trip.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:58:05-00:58:09]
Being like, wow, okay, so we're going to learn a lot about ourselves right now.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:58:10-00:58:13]
Yes, yes, life on hard mode. And then the rewarding mode too, 100%.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:58:13-00:58:20]
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Bailey, where can people find you, connect with you, all of the things?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:58:21-00:58:32]
Yeah. Follow me on Instagram at Bailey Joy Summer. B-A-Y-L-E-E-J-O-Y Summer like the season. S-U-M-M-E-R. That's me.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:58:33-00:59:01]
Awesome. We'll put that in the show notes. And I hope that everybody gives you a follow, sees what you're up to. You share a lot of really valuable content. Everything you share, like you, I mean, it follows exactly what you spoke about. Like there's, there's, there's a strategy behind it, but it doesn't feel like you're out there, like being that stereotypical person. what we think of when we think of like marketing, right?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:59:01-00:59:02]
Yes.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:59:02-00:59:10]
Yes. There's so much that can be learned both from your organic content. And then if somebody joins, um, any of your courses and, uh, and coaching.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:59:10-00:59:19]
Yeah. Thank you so much. I appreciate, I appreciate this conversation. This is so fun. Your questions were incredible and it's a pleasure and honor to be here.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:59:19-00:59:24]
Awesome. Well, thank you again so much. And, uh, I look forward to connecting again in the future.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:59:25-00:59:26]
Sounds great. Thank you.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:59:27-01:00:01]
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Equestrian Connection podcast by WeHorse. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a rating and review, as well as share us on social media. You can find us on Instagram at WeHorse underscore USA and check out our free seven-day trial on WeHorse.com where you can access over 175 courses with top trainers from around the world in a variety of topics and disciplines. Until next time, be kind to yourself, your horses, and others.

‍