#61 The Art of Equine Alchemy with Amber Lydic

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:00:05-00:00:19]
A self-professed lifelong student of horses who creates spaces where people can unlock their magic and healing abilities, fostering not just self-healing, but providing solace for others, whether they be human or equine.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:00:21-00:00:37]
It's just a matter of are you willing to put in the time to build that relationship piece first so everyone feels safe? If you go back to that and you fix the foundation of it, all that stuff is really easy if you're not fighting with a horse. They're not worried about it. Everything is easy. The only resistance that's coming is when they don't feel safe to do it, either physically or mentally.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:00:39-00:02:01]
Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from WeHorse. My name is Danielle Crowell, and I'm your host. Over two decades ago, Amber started a successful business focused on helping performance horses However, she soon realized that a major part of the horse's problems stemmed from the humans, and at that time, no one was addressing how to support the human side of things. While Amber knew there was a disconnect, she wasn't sure what to do about it, so she continued to train horses to be safe for humans instead of also working towards making humans safer horses. Years later, Amber experienced a life-changing moment that helped her understand the power of energy. It inspired her to bridge the gaps that she observed through her career working with horses. To broaden her perspective and enhance her ability to assist others, she pursued several certifications, including coaching, theta healing at multiple levels, and somatic breathwork. Amber has since combined these modalities to create a unique approach to healing. Whether it's through meditation, somatic experiences, or tailored interventions, Amber works with individuals both in groups and one-on-one. If you're interested in hearing more, let's dive in. Amber, welcome to the WeHorse podcast. I'm so excited to have you here and chat with you about literally all of the things.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:02:02-00:02:05]
So welcome. Thank you for having me.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:02:06-00:02:26]
So we're going to start like we're going to rewind and go way, way, way back. So back to the early days of performance horse training. Can you tell us about the disconnect you experienced when you were doing that and just what you were seeing, feeling, what you witnessed, what you experienced that led you to where you are?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:02:29-00:09:54]
I think when I was training, training, I went to a school out in Colorado with John Lyons and Josh Lyons. And I did an entire almost a year out there in Colorado, like eight hours a day, learning groundwork, learning all of these steps. And And it was just very much like this is the way that it is. And when I came back to California, I was working at a boarding facility and there was lots of lots of trainers, but also a huge amount of boarders. So it turned into me being the one where all the trainers sent their horses to. to figure out the things that they couldn't figure out. And I think I wasn't threatening to them because I was young and because I wasn't necessarily discipline specific. I took lessons from all of them to understand the difference between all the disciplines so that then I could help their clients better. And what I realized was there was so much that I could do with the horse that And then when I would hand them back to even the trainer, there was stuff that wasn't translating for the horse. And I was like, I don't understand because they're a trainer and I'm a trainer and baby trainer where I of course thought I knew literally everything. I was the best trainer ever, especially when my ego got nice and plumped up from, you know, people referring me and stuff. And I was really busy. And so, um, But I did have great trainers around me to learn from, so it didn't make sense to me. And then fast forward to working at the police department with the police horses, where we were taking officers that knew nothing about horses and then putting them on horses that were pretty good. But when I came into my standards, I was like, I can't believe they ride these horses out on the streets. That's mildly terrifying because some of them were not really that... balanced mentally like it was interesting that they didn't have a um they didn't even have like a concept of this is good this is bad like this is safe this is unsafe because no one kind of knew and the trainer had transitioned out and so but i found it was crazy because i would get those horses ready for the people put the officers on them and the horses would just perform and i was like what is the difference like why could i have people in their personal horses and have their horses come back for me and have it be sort of a mess. And then the officers, it wasn't like that. And then once I left that job and I started training on my own again, privately, I started to realize that the people that were the horse owners and the guardians were so tied into their story, into the relationship. And with officers, it was like, I hate to say it, but they were like another tool. It was like this cool thing they got to go do, you know, like, oh yeah, I ride a horse and I'm a cop. So there wasn't that like, really heavy weight bared on the relationship between them like yes they needed to do what they were supposed to do but they treated them more like black and white do this do that and we're done and the horses were there for it like none of them were you know really obstinate once we cleared everyone out but the people with the private horses their personal horses were would come and it was like, well, if there was all this meaning behind it, well, if the horse doesn't act X, Y, Z, that must mean something about me or they could put it back onto them. So it was just interesting to watch like through the phases of my career where I was like, oh, hold on. And I think it helped when I was working at the police department. I went through the EGALA training. So I did a lot of learning around people that were in mental health and watching the horses and starting to make so it was like my first taste of what that actually looked like in with the horses when no one was asking anything of the horses how they behaved and how they interacted um and so I think that that whole through that whole period I started to recognize that there was something that was definitely which seems crazy because I look at it now I'm like of course there is but you don't know until you know yeah so But then once you do know, it becomes blaringly obvious. And I just didn't know what to do about it, though. And mostly because... I started to look at my own training. And what had happened was I got pregnant and I was submitting videos. I forgot about this until right now. I was submitting videos for this trainer certification through Al Dunning. And he sends videos and you have to do certain maneuvers. And then you send them back to him and he approves and you get moved on to the next thing. I was so caught up in my career is not going to slow down just because I'm pregnant. And that happened actually yesterday. When I first started training, I got pregnant right after I started publicly training and my business was thriving. And there were so many people that were saying, oh, it's too bad because you had a lot of potential. And that's a bummer. Like I heard so much of that. And somehow that got ingrained in me. I will not slow down. I will give multiple assistants. I will be busier than ever just to. And I remember the second time I was pregnant, I was still riding my horse, my personal horse. I was doing groundwork with all the other ones. And I was sending in these videos and my horse was so pissed. Like he was miserable. His like tail was swishing. He was like gaping his, and I still have him, gaping his mouth. And I'm getting passed on some of these videos. And I was like, what the heck? Like, this is a horse I used to show. We used to go do cuttings and I used to haul him everywhere. And I was like, I think it was watching the videos back and realizing, holy shit, my horse is so miserable with me in these moments. And so then I stopped riding and had my son. And once I took that pause, I think... I kind of stopped everything and started to relook at what was important to me versus, you know, and why was it so important to me? So I had to start looking at my own story because I identified it in my clients. Well, your story is so strongly interwoven with what your horse's behavior means about you. Then I was like, Oh, what does that say about me? So, um, I think then that whole period after that, there was a few years and then I went through my own divorce and my horses who I had, my two young ones who always were just like so easy and so good to start. And they were just like I was going to plan to show them and I was going to clinics on them and they were like so talented. And then all of a sudden it was like they were falling apart and they were having stuff go on. And I was like, oh, God, OK. So I realized that my story was tied into I'm not a I'm not a good wife now because my husband is divorcing me. And there was other stuff that went on. I'm not a good mom because I can't show for my kids. You know, like my business is going to be sold the board, the boarding facility that we own. That means I didn't do that right. And then I was like, oh, God, and now. The one thing I have to fall back on is that I am a good horse trainer. And now my own horses are showing me that I, in fact, am not a good horse trainer. So it was just like this really ripping apart of my identity. And that is what actually started me on my own healing journey, which is I can see how it all led up and how there was this little chunks given to me, these little breadcrumbs. And then I just followed it all the way through until the universe or my horses were like, we're not going any further until you sort this out.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:09:54-00:10:47]
Like you have else to go you must now look at yourself and what that looks like to do that so that's kind of how I ended up tracking like the connection of that stuff and then then diving into my own work hmm I just, I hear, I feel everything that you're saying. Um, the idea of these stories that we, that we carry and then we project on our horses. And I just, I resonate so much with it. Um, and I'm so glad that you're doing this work because I, I, I know so many people listening will resonate as well. Um, and I just think that it's something that it's, it's not only important for us as horse people, but it's just important for us as people to be able to recognize. So yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's so cool.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:10:48-00:10:54]
It's one of those things where I'm like, it really, really sucks when you're in it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:10:55-00:11:28]
And then when you look back, you're like, wow, that's really cool that this incredible animal made me more human and than any other human experience that I've been able to to have yeah yeah yeah I think it's potent for people because a lot of people well for me my first experience um doing a theta session which is like an um like an energy healing modality and I went to have the session and she asked me She was doing some muscle testing, just trying to feel into what do I feel is true.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:11:28-00:16:21]
And I have no idea of any of this at this point. I'm like, this is freaking weird, but one of my really good friends told me to do this. And I'm like, better than therapy, because therapy wasn't really doing it for me. And at one point, she was muscle testing me, and she asked, are you human? And it was like, no. And I was like, what does that even mean? What do you mean, not human? Like, what? She was like, okay, not actually. She was like, well, maybe. And she's like, it's your... it's almost like you don't deep love not knowing how to connect to humanness to other people like growing up. I didn't have really strong bonds with my mom. I lost my dad when I was three. She was a single mom. So I stayed with my grandparents a lot, you know, and there's a lot of different dynamic growing up also with an uncle who was schizophrenic. I lived in the house with him. So There was all this like kind of wild stuff happening while I was growing up and not really anyone for me to actually deeply connect with at any level because no one really had the capacity to do it. So I was always in the backyard with the dogs, you know, and with the chickens. And I was like in my own like, you know, fantasy world. So... And she asked me that it was like, oh, and I think that happens very often with a lot of horse people where you hear them so often say, I don't connect with other people, but that's why I have my horse. My horse understands me and dog people, cat people. Like I think people that are drawn to animals is because there was some type of disconnect growing up where they didn't have any secure, safe attachments with other humans. So, but I, but I find that people do crave animals. connection with other people. It's just they either don't know how they don't know that it can be safe or, you know, it's just too unfamiliar and uncertain for them to even dabble in. And especially when you start to get into your adulthood, when it becomes way more scary. And so what I find is that the horses are have the ability to inspire people to want to go deeper because once they start showing up with these lessons and then all of a sudden that relationship is falling apart, then people are like, wait a minute, I need this. Like, I don't have the other things. I need this. And so it's like the horses usher them into this space of, well, if they do find someone that is helping them connect back to themselves first, then all of a sudden they can connect with the horse but then connecting with other humans is not so scary because you're living very authentically and you know these attachments to these stories of who you think you have to be to be loved or to be accepted you get to experience that unconditional love with the horse the unconditional you know um unconditional exception from them first and then you your body your nervous system starts to know oh this is what that feels like And then it's like, can I dabble in doing that with another human? Which is why I love doing in-person stuff because it's like, I know that the people that I draw in, the moment we start to do introductions and we start to share, it's like they start to realize how every single person has this really... common thread of this i just want to connect so bad but it's scary or i don't think i'm good enough or i won't be liked or i'll be laughed at or people think i'm weird or and everyone has it and once they start realizing that they're not actually alone they're just doing human then it's like these huge walls come down these like big healings happen just from like that those moments where you're like oh And so I think the horses are really the ones that are ushering them to me or to other people that are doing work like this. And then there's such a bigger collective healing that happens because each individual is having this trickle-down effect with anyone that they come into contact with. So, I mean, it's definitely... I can do the performance stuff, and I think it all ties in because the horsemanship side of it is very much like you're... The language you're speaking is the energy, not necessarily the tools or not necessarily the exercises because... I also found that I could give people those tools and exercises, but if they had a belief within themselves that they felt bad about asking or, you know, if they're asking for a boundary in space, if they had boundary issues, their horse was going to keep pushing and there was no amount of smacking on the ground or smacking on their chest or shaking a rope, that was going to stop that from happening. It was like you energetically have to know you're worthy of space before you can actually physically ask. So I will also use the horsemanship stuff to get to that because that just shows me where those holes are. So I think the horses are just a huge part, and that's their part in the healing is they're bringing these lessons forward. And I do believe they choose their people, so I don't fall into – the pity or the, oh my gosh, that poor horse. When I see a relationship that sucks, I like to think of the fact that their soul chose before they came here to have this experience because they are also having their own lessons, their own experience. And it keeps me out of the weeds of feeling overwhelmed by, oh my God, you know, there's so much to do. There's so much to do. Like, no, everyone chose.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:16:21-00:17:45]
And the people that come into my space are the work they're meant to do with me and um and so because especially with social media it's you see everything everywhere so it's like well how do you not get overwhelmed and just get discouraged like completely discouraged to do anything it's like well never mind this is too much it's like no one person can have a huge effect on many people so if i just stay in in that space and re-recognizing all the time what the horses are choosing to do for us is um pretty potent most of the time yeah brings to mind the roomie quote it's like um we're all just walking each other home and sometimes i think it's like the horses it's like hey um i'm trying to get you there like jump on i'll i'll you know get you there a little bit faster or i'll show you the path or you know or something like that it's like we're all just walking each other home and the horses are like well if you need a ride if you can just surrender and listen to me exactly exactly So you mentioned a couple of times the word safety, just like scary and things like that. I want to go to your website, your bio specifically. It says, I continue to train horses to be safe for humans instead of working towards making humans safe for horses. Can you say more about that?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:17:47-00:28:44]
Yeah, I feel like, well, as a horse trainer, that's, you know, what people look to you to do, right? Like, make my horse safe for me. And what I started to realize that in those moments in watching those videos of myself that I was, in fact, no longer safe for my horses. They couldn't. And actually, when I look further back, what was I doing as a trainer? Not consciously, and this is why I know that I can hold space for trainers and clients that are doing it the way it's always been done, because I was there and I had no idea that it could be done differently. And so when I think of safety, I think of, are you safe to tell me how you feel about the questions I'm asking you? So when in previous lifetime of training was like, here's where your body needs to be. I'm going to hold this here until you get there. And a lot of the horses that I had were problem horses, quote unquote. A lot of them were dressage horses that were burnt out. So they were very fit and very strong and very big. And I am only 5'1". And I was very small back then, especially. And so I still, at my small size, could manipulate bodies of these horses to get them to do what I wanted. And you always hear people say, well, you know, if they didn't want you to do that, they wouldn't let you. And I can tell you firsthand that that is not, in fact, the case. Because when I think of the first time that I really understood the nervous system and I understood the fight or flight was listening to Dr. Joe Dispenza and this was like probably four years ago and I was I can tell you exactly where I was in fact I was like in my yard and I was gardening and I had this podcast on and it literally he said something and I was like holy crap like that is literally what I'm doing I am literally hijacking this nervous system you know, shutting them down, putting them in a fond response and then calling it like success and doing it so many times that they just stopped trying. I was never, I think the reason I quote unquote was successful is I never went so far over threshold that I made them fight me, you know, or want to run away. It's like I had, and I don't know, I can't remember because I never really was conscious enough to think about it back then when I was training. I would like to lie to myself and say, no, it's because I did, want the best for them. And I was creating a safe space for them to fall into the soft space. But I don't know how that's possible with the way I was training. So I think I like to lie to myself. So I don't feel so bad about what I did. But once I realized, oh, crap, the nervous system is doing this thing. That's why it looks like what I'm doing is working. And then I started to really fall apart because then I dove into Peter Levine's work with somatic experiencing. I was like, oh, my gosh, like we're putting trauma in their bodies. Like we are actually this is the formula for inputting trauma into a mammal's body. Like and we are doing this all the time. And and so that is really when I I started. So I kind of moved away from. horsemanship stuff. Cause I still, then I was like, I don't know how to do this then. Like, I don't know how to train and not, and not make it unsafe for them. Like, I don't even know what that looks like. And, uh, at the same time, Sandy Vreberg, who is a Masterson, one of the trainers started coming out to the Barnarat now and doing trainings. And I started to learn more about body work. And then it was this light bulb of, oh my gosh, like, yeah, nobody goes and lays on a massage table to get body work. And, that your arm doesn't get held behind your back until you soften, until you relax. Like, you know, your neck doesn't get manipulated really fast and say, just relax, just relax. Like, that's not the way. And if we're trying to make horses supple and soft and strong, then how is anything that we're doing in training like that that's fast and hard like that, how is that even functional? When I started to learn about the body, I was like, oh, that's why it's not sustainable. Like, you can do it for a little while, but then they fall apart, right? And and so it's crazy to think that like after however freaking many years, it's like 20 years of being a trainer. I never connected the fact that the body that, you know, I knew body work was great. I had my horses worked on by a chiropractor. But for some reason, there was never that bridge where it was like you can do training that is like body work and you can help them get fit. And also in a place where it's sustainable because they're not tight and they're not rich. They're not rigid. They're not trying to protect themselves from you. And so all these little pieces started to fall in place. And I think, who did I? I think I met Tara at a, Tara Davis. I met, no, Warwick told me about her from an expo we were at. And he was like, you have to talk to this chick. Like, she's crazy. She's cool. And so I just started my old podcast and I had her on. And then she was like, you need to talk to Celeste. So then I found Celeste Lazarus and she's doing. And so both of them being trainers, The combination of the two of them, Celeste being so deeply with the body work and the training and Tara being so much the trainer and like the spirit side, the relationship side. And like then being able to connect with the two of them, I started to put these dots together where I was like, oh, there is a way to actually train horses and keep in mind their mind, keep their personality alive. there you know not shutting them down and also physically keep them fit and you can still go do all the things because you have all those pieces together so once i understood oh that is something that's possible because there was a minute where i just had to stop everything because i was like i can't touch horses anymore And and all of them have also had that experience where like horses are not safe with me. I recognize that and I don't know what to do about it. And so I'm just going to stop. And so I think what happened was I started to really go into when I have horses that were shut down, when I had horses that were scared, they would come in. the amount of standing around that i did because in the time period where i stopped doing horsemanship type stuff i really started to dive into a lot of different modalities of my own work so there's a lot of meditation there was a lot of regulating my own nervous system there was a lot of that when i started doing that with them i was like oh this is how we create safety first because they weren't even able to show me who they were in the beginning And, you know, people come in, they say, my horse is lazy. My horse, you know, doesn't move off the leg or my horse won't pay attention to me. They're so disconnected. And I was like, oh, this is so easy. You literally just have to take the rope and regulate yourself and stand out there with them until they realize, like, this is what we're doing first forever. And until I could have training horses come in and me say, look. before you bring your horse here, just know for the first two or three weeks, like they're going to be out in the pasture and I'm going to be doing a lot of standing around with them. And if that makes you uncomfortable, then I'm sorry, this is not for you. And they would still come out because I wanted the clients to be very much involved in the process. But what was interesting is when I was doing this work with the horse, I'd let them move their feet and then I'd let them stand and I'd help them regulate. At the same time, I was able to talk to the person and unwind their stuff because I did life coach training. Then I had this other part where I can weave it in where I was like, I'm helping the horse that the same as a couples therapy. So then I would have this time because I wasn't actively doing too much. It was like I was getting to know the person so that I could make the connection of why is this horse this way? And, you know, I could also in that time of just being out there with them, talk to the person, get to know the person and understand their own dynamic and their relationship with the horse, their expectations, their story. So I would unwind and help co-regulate the person while I was doing it with the horse and we would spend sometimes hours in a week and people would be like, holy crap, all of the things I thought were so important that this force needed to do actually doesn't matter because if someone's feeling unsafe, it's just the relationship piece started to become more important than the performance stuff. But in that time span of those two or three weeks is usually how much it took. By the time we got back to riding, we would just put the tack on and then a big gown, just walk your horse. And all of the quote unquote issues that were there were gone. And it was like, no, we didn't have to train that stuff out. Like all of that was just their defenses were up. You know, they were completely dysregulated. They were lame. They were all of these things. because it was like there was so much turmoil between the two, and there was so much fighting, and all those patterns just needed to be interrupted. And then by the time you put it all back together, it was like a miracle, but it wasn't. It was like, no, this is how it happened. But it's really hard for people to grasp that concept because – When you have to stand around that much, you have to deal and look at your own stuff to be able to do that. You know, not falling into as a trainer, is this client expecting more? I'm probably disappointing them. Oh, my gosh. Like, you know, what are they thinking? Are they going to take the horse out of training? How am I going to pay rent? It was like, no, this is deeply rooted in me knowing this is the way to the other side. And I think people could feel that because I wasn't second guessing anymore. So that safety piece is important. The horse is able to just be in the same space as the person and in a way where they can say if they don't like something. And there's a step back that's taken to explore and be curious about why the horse doesn't like it versus I'm going to reprimand you for biting or I'm going to reprimand you for kicking. They're not born doing that. So if you're not asking those questions, you're not being curious about it, then you're not really... serving anyone because i feel like every time they're reprimanded every time you shut that down or quote-unquote correct it in the traditional sense you're just stuffing it back into their body and that will come back out later either lameness or you know just anything um dysregulated in the body is going to manifest as something else so it's like i'm just saving you vet bills it wasn't broken and then you know so when i talk about sustainability it's like you can go show You can go do all the things and you can have a horse that's happy to do it with you, but it's just a matter of, are you willing to put in the time to build that relationship piece first so everyone feels safe? And then you can go do all the things and you're not having all these other problems that, you know, you're taking your horse to training for, you know, and then you can work on the quote unquote fun stuff that's, you know, you're making your spins better, your pee off better or whatever it is. It's like, if you go back to that and you fix the foundation of it, all of that stuff is really easy if you're not fighting with the horse, right? They're not worried about it. Everything is easy. The only resistance is coming is when they don't feel safe to do it either physically or mentally. So you're eliminating all of that resistance just by working on the relationship piece first, which I wish everyone really understood that.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:28:45-00:29:04]
Yeah. I, um, I remember the first time that I, I met Celeste and I had been doing the bouncer movement method, um, pillars for a while. And then I asked her to come on the podcast here. And, um, And I remember I said, gosh, I'm so bad at remembering podcast numbers.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:29:04-00:29:07]
If you go way back in the archives, the podcast is the list.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:29:08-00:30:04]
And I remember I said to her in that episode, I was like, yeah, after doing the balance or movement method with my horses, um, I feel like I'm meeting them for the first time. And, and it's so funny to me to look back on that. That was, you know, two, two and a half years ago. And, um, And it's so funny because I thought I knew them then. And then the more I went deeper and deeper and deeper in the work, it was like, you know what? I actually feel like I'm meeting myself. And then I'm meeting the horses again. It was just this incredible phenomenon where... through doing this work with my horses, which initially started as, hey, I need to rehab my horse's physical issues.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:30:04-00:30:08]
And suddenly it was like, where did I get here?

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:30:11-00:30:38]
Where suddenly I was like, oh my gosh, like you had said, there's so much that I emotionally need to work on as well. And it's so interesting where I look back years ago and I was riding my horses so much, like, you know, five, six times a week thinking, Oh gosh, like I can't let them have a few days off because they'll forget everything.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:30:38-00:30:43]
All these random things we tell ourselves.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:30:43-00:32:23]
And, and so I was riding so much and thinking, well, of course I have a good relationship with my horses. I'm constantly doing things with them. Of course, like, you know, And the irony of it is that I did not have a relationship with my horse. It was a I didn't know myself. I didn't know them. We were two individuals strapping on some gear and calm at a riding session. And now it's like we can just look at each other. And it's like, I see you and I know you see me. And it's the most incredible, not even just horse-human relationship, but... human, like, me personally relationship that I have with myself now because of doing this work, which initially started as I want to help my horse move better through its hind end, you know, or, like, something random that I'm thinking this is a behavioral or this is a performance or this is a physical thing. Let me just fix that. And it took me on this incredibly beautiful journey that it's – I just – I just hope so many other people can go on this journey as well. Because it's this interesting thing that everybody seems to be afraid of. And it's like, oh, man, like, I just really want this for you.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:32:23-00:32:24]
Yeah.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:32:25-00:32:28]
Yeah, but that's the part where...

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:32:30-00:33:11]
they usher you in however they need to, whether it's through their body usually or their behavior or the communication and behavior gets too big where the person can't handle it and hopefully they end up with somebody who's like, oh, okay, let's fix that, but actually. I think that's the cool part about Tara and Celeste and Catherine and, you know, all these people that, all these trainers that I am around that I'm like, oh, they're all doing the thing. We're all leading you back to yourself, but... It's like, what is that? Sell people what they want and give them what they need. It's like you don't know what's going to happen and it's going to be the best ride ever. We can't tell you. I mean, I think people when they come to me kind of know because it's like the point that I'm at.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:33:11-00:35:05]
I'm I am really focused on the human part of it. and you know sharing that space with the horses doing the work with the horses um but I miss that other part where people come like my horse won't get in the trailer and I'm like okay let's go stand at the trailer and talk about like where you're at in your life and your relationships and and all of a sudden the horse gets in the trailer and you're like yeah okay yeah they helped you get here yeah absolutely are you feeling inspired to put as much focus on your end of the partnership as your horses Here at WeHorse.com, we have over 150 courses with top trainers from around the world, covering everything from dressage to starting young horses to jumping and cavaletti training to groundwork and horsemanship. And we also have courses designed to help you become more grounded and present with and without your horse. This includes courses like the Mindful Equestrian and Matwork for Equestrians with yoga teacher Kathy Woods. Check out WeHorse.com for a free seven-day trial to get started. And as a member, you get access to everything in our WeHorse library to watch whenever you want. And we also have an app, which means you can download a course or video to watch without Wi-Fi, which is perfect for those days at the bar when you just want a quick dose of training inspiration before your ride, or in this case, to ground in and feel a little bit more mindful and present before you meet your horse. So what are you waiting for? Go to WeHorse.com and check out our free seven day trial to access our WeHorse library. See if it's a good fit for you and start training with our amazing trainers today. We can't wait to see you in there. And now back to the episode. I want to talk a little bit about light, the light side and the shadow side and the importance of the two and embracing the two. Can you discuss a little bit about that?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:35:06-00:47:48]
Yeah, that's my favorite thing, actually. Shadow work is my favorite thing. And it sounds so scary because I think people hear like shadow is like, oh, it's dark and it's the dark side of me. It's a part of me that is bad or, you know, is negative. And what's interesting about the name, The Art of Equine Alchemy, came to me first off in a journal. I'd set the intention the night before. After I'd shut everything down, I closed my professional page. I said I was going to stop training horses. And I went to sleep and I was like, I need to know what I'm doing because I don't know what's happening. And I'm not Amberlighted professional horse training or whatever I was before anymore. I don't want that. And I need to know what it is. And I woke up with the Art of Equine Alchemy. And I was like, I don't even really know what that means. But alchemy is like bad stuff to good stuff or something, you know? And I was like, oh, perfect. That sounds great. Like the way it sounds. And so I just took it on before I really dove into alchemy and dove into... Aside from the actual materials, you know, shifting there, you know, Carl Jung having an entire psychological idea of alchemy. And what I didn't realize until this is kind of wild until probably six months ago is that I started really diving into his work and going, oh, my God, this is literally what I've been doing. The shadow work is basically his work. You know, it's his jam. And I was like, oh, that's why this all makes so sense. But it's funny how it came backwards. And I was just trusting my intuition. And I was like, okay, she's slow. She'll connect dots. And the first time that I ever dabbled in shadow work was my friend Francine. And she was like, look, you can do it a lot of different ways, but... here's what I do and I kind of took that and did a little mini course with people and I kind of came up with my own version of it and these these stages of recognizing it's like the awareness first of okay there's this pattern like whether it's in relationships like for me it was like why is every single person I have cheat on me like why you know and you'll find people patterns where you know why do i always feel like when i get into a job i'm disrespected by my boss or why does it always feel like when you know i'm with my friends that you know they take advantage of me so everyone will have these like patterns in their life and once you become aware of them the emotions that kind of correlate with them i like to call them teaching emotions because i like to leave the negative and positive out because i don't like the judgment put on the emotions you know the emotions are just this the emotions are just the the language of the body letting you know like there's something here for you to look at and we are so conditioned to move away from things that are quote unquote negative or bad feelings or sad feelings or angry feelings like as a child most people don't feel sad what's wrong indicating that something is wrong about the way you're feeling. And, you know, I don't think people do that on purpose. It's just always been done to us. So we just continue on. And so it's this idea of being aware of the patterns. You know, what is this dominant emotion that I have come up all the time? So for me, it's easiest for me to relate it back to my own story of why am I always being cheated on? What do I feel? I feel abandoned. I feel mad. I feel X, Y, Z. And so I when I started to do the shadow work, that would come up and I would be like, what is this feeling of this feeling of abandonment feels sad. It feels whatever. And I would start to ask questions of it instead of try to push it away, get rid of it. So after my divorce, I spent a lot of time drinking. I drank a lot. I partied a lot. I went out a lot. I was sad. I wasn't dealing with it. And which is, you know, ultimately what led me to an event that I did where we also talked about this, where it was like, what is this dominant emotion and what is it trying to teach me? And then when you pull it out and you find it and you have a conversation with it through like active imagination. So I take people on a lot of like private journeys where they, It's kind of like I'm just a guide. I connect people with their own bodies and then I kind of see where they need to go in it. So it's nothing that I can come up with ahead of time. But I lead people back to their own understanding of where did this start? Why do I feel this way? And for me... i think i had a lot of disconnect when i was young so that feeling of disconnection the feeling of abandonment the feeling of sadness of longing of like craving connection and not having it just stemmed from that and so you can either go back to that version of yourself or you go just back to in general as if you're watching a movie there's a lot of different ways to do it where you're like let me understand it so the second awareness and then the understanding of this is where this started You don't have to go back into it and experience it all over again. It's like, I just need to understand why this keeps coming up. And then the most powerful part is being able to go, of course, of course you feel this way. You know, like, of course you do. Like, the total justification and... acceptance of it instead of thinking there's something wrong it's like there is a reason you feel this way here's why of course you feel that way and then it's like the integration of it okay like do is this serving me to carry like I understand I understand why this is here I understand how it kept me safe you know it it kept me in a place where I could push away I could never really connect with anybody because then it would keep me from being hurt when people would leave or you know so I started to understand yeah this is why this is how it kept me safe and then this active relationship with that knowing of that shadow stuff being like but I don't need that anymore like I'm here now and I can choose differently to keep myself safe I can actively participate in my own safety from my from my mind here and now versus from my trauma that I had before so what that looked like for me was um Not the relationship I'm in now, but the one before. I had one in between my marriage and the one I'm in. And what had to happen for me is these patterns will reoccur until you figure it out, right? And so what I realized I was doing was falling into very much people pleasing and a fond response of what do you need? I can be the best wife. I can be the best girlfriend. I can do everything you need. And I can bend and twist and mold myself into whatever it needs to be to keep you here so I don't have to feel the abandonment and the disconnection. But really what I realized is I was abandoning myself every time. So how in the world could I ever draw someone in that was not going to do the same thing? Because I feel like when the relationships of humans, whether it's platonic work or in partnership, you're going to call in the people that have an um the opposite side of the wounding that you have to poke at that to bring it forward and up for you to have these opportunities to do something different so that integration looked like me finally going oh and i realized it and i was with him and it was he would break up and leave and come back and break up and it was just like this cycle of many years and finally the last day i was like hold on actually i was like we're complete And he was just like, what? I'm like, this is complete. Like, I figured it out. I figured out the puzzle. And he was like, what? And I was like, you can go now. And it was just as easy as that. It was like there was before it was like freaking crying, sobbing in the dry, like so much drama, the addiction to life. All of those chemicals was so real for me because I'd just grown up in turmoil and like chaos. So it's what my body knew. This is familiar. I'm going to continue to choose the familiar pain, the familiar disconnection and all of this like stuff over this like really calm, soft, safe experience in relationship. I didn't know that. So it was like once I realized that I was like, oh, this is complete. Like this is what you were here for and you can go now and I love you. I'm not mad, but I can't have you in my life anymore. And it was just this interesting shift that happened. I got the opportunity to do it one more time at an even deeper level where I had to choose myself in relationship and didn't talk to somebody for like a year and a half who I'm with now. And then it was like solid. So it was like this process of, and it can look like any type of anything for anyone. It's just whatever reoccurring pattern you have in your life, you can really just, instead of going into victimness and going, oh my gosh, this keeps happening to me. What's wrong with me? You know, and feeling sorry for yourself for numbing it out or doing whatever you do. disconnecting from humans altogether and only being with your horses it's like you have so much more freedom to be authentic and to love and to connect with people when you start to realize oh i can choose myself at any time and not feel bad i will not feel bad for i will not feel bad in business partnerships i say shaley actually was in between the last boyfriend and then my current relationship she is in between and i think for me and her healed this um This abandonment stuff, this commitment stuff that we both sort of ironically, we did it in business and especially with another woman and a woman I didn't know that well. We're like, we're going to go into this business together because we just love talking. And so through it, we've had this experience of being in a relationship with someone where we can be completely blunt and honest with each other and nobody's feelings get hurt nobody takes it personal it's like this is how I feel and it's like oh okay and then there's this like let's repair the thing which I had never had in any other relationship before ever in my whole life so I call her my work husband um but we healed a lot of just coming together so like that's That's like these pieces, these reflections of the people you have in your life, the reflections of your relationship with your horse, the reflections of your friends you have. It's like, what is in it? Like, what does it feel like to me? And if it doesn't feel good, it's probably because you're being called to outgrow that or you have outgrown it or there's something that you're supposed to be learning from it so you can move through it and um so it's the integration of choosing at the very end so for like the shadow work it's like the awareness the understanding the acceptance and then the integration is i am actively going to participate in my own experience and not choose people that do you know shitty things to me I'm not going to choose the relationships where people don't hear me or where it's not safe. And the horses are really the ones that were the example for me. Like, I feel like I learned how to do relationships through them. My nervous system got to experience that being in the presence of someone who, after you just took a step back and connected with yourself, they're like, oh, there, like you said, now I see you and now you see me. And then there was this acceptance that happened where I was like, oh, is this my whole nervous system was like, this is what connection actually feels like. Okay. you know and now that i've embodied that i can take that into human relationships which is much scarier sometimes but that whole process was what got me there and that's how the horses really played that big part of several different ways but there's a big piece of you don't know what it feels like until you know what it feels like and then after that you can't really go back and then you crave that you know and it's like i'm not going to ever feel the way I felt in relationships before ever. I just won't. There's no amount of anything that will cause me to go back to that. But there's so much freedom in that because you know you are in control of your own experience. Like you get to choose. And I think a lot of people forget that. They feel like they just fall victim to the circumstances that they're in. And while it is hard when you're in it, when you're in it to remember, I am choosing this. And Shaylee reminds me that all the time. You know, when I'll be in certain situations and she'll just be like, you're choosing this. I'm like, I'm choosing this, you know, and I love it because I'm like, I am, you know, and to have someone who's, you know, that's not just in your own head, but something that you can hear, you know, she says things to me that my partner can't say to me where it's like, they're very much, you know, they're very much alike. So it's interesting that the universe like brings you these, like, here, let me support you when you're asking for the support in your growth. Um, And then that allows me more space for me to hold space for the people that come as clients where I'm like, yeah, I'm in it too. Like we're all in it. And I think it's the important thing. that i have in my friends and you know friends that are trainers friends that are doing this work that everyone is like we're actively doing this work it is not like you get out of being a human just because you figure stuff out um but it does become much more rewarding and it becomes there's just so much more freedom and being able to not have to adjust yourself and be something that you're not all the time you just get to show up who you are and if people don't like it well sometimes that's uncomfortable and it's a little sad if you have to let people go and It's like, but you don't have to worry about being hurt in that way anymore. So it's definitely worth it. All of it is worth it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:47:50-00:48:02]
Yeah. It's like no longer asking what's wrong with me and instead asking what do I long for? Yeah. Yeah.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:48:05-00:48:41]
What do I want in my life and how can I create someone who can receive it? That's the other thing that I find a lot of my clients are not clients that come and say, how can I get more from my horse? It's usually how can I give more to my horse? So when you talk about doing pillar one and, you know, going into the receiving mode, it's so interesting because your horse isn't going to get there unless you can get there, which is, you know, this idea, which I think why people struggle with it sometimes because I just want to give and I want to get them there and I want to help them. And it's like, you have to help yourself first.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:48:41-00:48:57]
Or not even just the idea of being like, I just want to help them, but also this idea that within the horse industry that most of us have, you know, grown up in, it's just the idea that OK, just do what I'm asking. Just do what I'm asking. Why aren't you just doing what I'm asking?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:48:57-00:49:03]
And it's like, then it's like, OK, well, like that's that's the beauty of the pillars.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:49:04-00:49:09]
Like it really turns things around. Yeah, it shines that light for sure.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:49:09-00:50:08]
Yeah. And I think the potency of when we did Elements of Connection was that shaylee and i would kind of create the container first before celeste went on so it was like people were we got paper and pillar one first and then we're like now go to pillar one yeah because you have to know what it feels like and it's vulnerable to feel open and soft around like that experience the horses are calling you to be like no you feel it first because it's scary sometimes when you've been holding these patterns in your body to keep you safe whether it's mentally energetically or actually physically Like to say, just relax, just relax. You're fine. You're fine. You're fine. Just do the thing. It's like that doesn't even make sense to you as a human. Until you've experienced, you know, the fear of the vulnerability and then realizing, oh, it is safe to be vulnerable and open and soft. Then the horse can go, oh, okay, I can be vulnerable and soft next to you. But that's the other part where they're calling you forward to do it, right? It's like this bridge of, okay, you got to go first, though. You can't force this one. You can't force this.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:50:09-00:50:28]
Absolutely. Absolutely. You mentioned a little while ago, you said the word alchemy. And you have an event coming up. It's called The Art of Equine Alchemy. It's an in-person event. And I'd love if you explain a little bit about what it is, when it is, all the things.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:50:30-00:52:46]
Yeah. What I learned over the last many years, since like 2017, was that most of my healing came from non-horse events, but it affected my horsemanship stuff. And I quickly recognize that there isn't things out there that bring the two together. The closest thing that I had experienced was going to Warwick's first summit. And it was interesting because there weren't horses there. There were people doing like 20 minute talks. It was like, you know, like a convention and everything. but to watch the people who had never experienced anything remotely close to that, have these like, Oh my gosh, like what is happening here? The energy here is crazy. You know? And I was like, Oh, this is like nothing though. But I was like, how do I pull in the people that have not had those external out of horse, out of horse land experiences? And how do I mix that with the horses? Let them have that experience, but at a horse event. And so I, the elements of connection was just like, it was like my warmup. And this is something that I've wanted to do for a long time. It was after I was at an expo and I quickly realized that all of the trainers that we were going to see was like, this isn't like we can't, we can't do the real world anymore. And it was wild to me because I was like, surely we know too much now for these trainers who have been doing this for so long that are so well known to be doing it that way still. To the point where it was like my clients and me were looking at each other, dispersed in the audience, like, we're not all going to get up at once, but I'm not staying here. You're all with me, and everyone knows it, and we are not all getting up at once. We're not going to be assholes, but I can't watch this anymore. But then I looked at how many people were there. There was hundreds of people there clapping and applauding. I was like, this cannot continue. And I wanted it to be expo style. Because I wanted people to be able to sit back and witness and have the time to do that. And in clinics, as an auditor, you can do it. And I sometimes feel like as auditors, it can be really much more potent because you're not out there in it.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:52:46-00:52:47]
I agree.

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:52:47-00:58:58]
Yeah. So it was like, how can I put people in this position, have them witness these six people that we have? So Shailene Evans and I are doing, we're creating the container. So we're opening, closing, doing the ceremonies. And then each person that's coming on is going to have an hour presentation with a horse and a person. So Celeste Lazarus, Tara Davis, Heather was going to do it, but she had to back out because she has some other life stuff happening, which is super sad. So Steffi Spieloper, she's coming from Germany. She's a behavioral scientist, but also very much in the woo. Dana Lovell, who's coming from Idaho. And she's very, what does she say? I love it. Conscious. do, and functional woo. That's good. I know. Ellie O'Brien is coming. She is coming from New Zealand. She actually... was here in America and actually met her through social media so many years ago. So I've watched her go through this process where she's now deeply in her own culture and she pulls forward the earth and the elements and the ancestors into training with the horses. So everyone is kind of, and then we have Catherine Lowry and she's going to be doing the human body stuff and, and so what i wanted was people to have an experience where they got to sit back and witness and draw parallels with their own lives like oh i understand that i see it all with trainers that foundationally are there for the connection piece but they get there many different ways so i feel like you can hear it the same thing but you hear it from one person and not another so i liked the idea that they were all safe to learn from i didn't and i didn't expect anything to just go rogue and all of a sudden some gnarly thing is gonna be happening in the arena like I wanted thoroughly vetted presenters to be there. And when you buy a ticket, you get an online portion. So it actually takes you through the three phases of transformation with an alchemy separately. So when you show up to the event, you are already prepared to have your own stuff weaved in. So each day there is a theme and there is very much this feeling of as an audience member, you are actually also participating in your own journey. So the very there is a an all in experience that we start on the 17th of October where we start at three. Shaley and I are going to do a three hour ceremony. And then after we have dinner and cocktails with the presenters, we have a catered dinner at the venue. And that's actually almost sold out, which is wild because people really wanted that experience. And then the 18th and 19th is these presentations throughout the day. The fun part that I really wanted to pull in was the community aspect. I didn't want people just to watch the, you know, watch the experience and then go home, go back to your hotel or go back to wherever. I wanted people the night after the first night to be able to stay. And like, so there's vendors, there's food that's going to come. There is the venue itself is beautiful. It's just oak trees and mountains and ocean air. And it's crazy. Yeah. And so having music and having just people being able to hang out after and connect with each other and talk with each other about the experiences they had. They also have six of these handpicked supporting professionals that are, you know, neuromuscular dentists. We have a farrier. We have, you know, a Beamer represent rep, rep, rep, just rep, Beamer rep. We have Masterson people. I think Jim's going to stop by on Saturday. So it's like we have all these different elements. So whatever you need, like there are professionals there for you to have your own conversation with. Like everyone has their own tables. You can spend time talking with them. That's why they're there. And then Saturday the 18th is just another day. And then Sunday we're doing a half day and it's just a panel live question and answer under the oak trees. All the presenters will be there. And we're just going to get through everyone's questions that come up over the week and over the weekend. So it's really built out to be a full on experience where you get to have a transformation for yourself. And there are calls set up beforehand to support. And then we're going to set up a call after. Because I feel like sometimes people get put back into the wild after you have an experience where you're so immersed. surrounded by people that understand you that are not judging where you're at in your journey even if you're like i don't know what i'm doing people are like the community that we have from our elements of connection from shaylee and i's membership or whatever it's like these people are all incredible and after they have these experiences together they are still connected they're still family people will meet up and collaborate you know separately in their own stuff like you know they come they go vacationing together like it's like once you have this experience you are a family with these people And so you are fully supported once you go home into the real world and you're like, people don't understand. And it's like, it's okay. Like, stay true to what you know. That's how you can become impactful and shift this stuff. And I think people are very boxed into what horsemanship is and looks like. And so when they see someone being successful in a way that they didn't think before, could get there from there, you know, that is what creates the shift that I think we so deeply need. And, you know, I think people sometimes don't think that they as an individual can be impactful like that. I'm like, that's very much not true. You know, and so the community piece is something that a lot of people that bought tickets expressed that they were craving, where they were like, yeah, I just, I want to be able to like say, hey, this, this, and this happened and have, you know, people understand, have resources that are aligned with You know, the beliefs that we have about how we do things holistically and, you know, feel supported because sometimes you don't get that, you know, at home in your in your spaces. So I just really wanted to create that. So it hasn't really been done like that. So it's we're feeling our way through it. But the energy around it just feels amazing. So I'm super excited that it's coming. It's going to happen finally after all these years of very long gestation period.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:58:60-00:59:03]
It sounds so incredible. And it's in California, correct?

[SPEAKER 1]
[00:59:04-00:59:26]
Carmel, California, October 18th to the 20th or 17th, if you do the add on day. And yeah, so it's Carmel is also one of the most beautiful places in California, like top five beautiful places. It's just incredible. It's super safe and close to the ocean and in the mountains and just being there.

[SPEAKER 2]
[00:59:26-01:00:13]
on the land itself where the event is taking place is incredible just being out there you just are like oh i just feel so held here so it was the perfect place to do it also the weather in october here is like also perfect so it's set up to be then the 17th is like the full moon as well so i think all the things are happening all of the things i wish that Carmel was not as far from my little home here in Nova Scotia, Canada. Or I would be there. Absolutely. It's been so incredible. We're going to put everything in the show notes as well. So if anybody listening is like, I've got to go. This is for me. I need something like this. It's all in the show notes. So make sure that you check that out.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:00:14-01:00:26]
I will say, too, we are planning on doing this. year after year, this will be the most intimate one because it's the first one. So if you really want to get in and get time with presenters, this would be the one to come to.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:00:27-01:00:53]
Okay, if you heard it here first, make sure that you join. Amber, I've been asking everybody this that have been coming on the podcast. There's a shift that is happening with Ode to Dote, Ode to Question, and whether some people think it's good or it's bad, I think it's I think it's important and it's necessary and it's needed. What is your hope for the future of the equestrian industry?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:00:56-01:02:17]
I would hope that people could... Stay curious. I think that's such a powerful thing to hope for people because I feel like hoping everyone will change, you know, and see things the way it seems very close minded because I myself at this point could be very boxed into what I think is the way. So I think. having people remain curious when you have been told something that is the way it is and always has been and it's worked, staying open to different ideas, you know, about the way it can be. Because I think each level we're boxed in, you know, until you see something different and bigger and then you can expand more. So I don't even think that where we've touched on as the trainers and presenters, where I am at personally is even where we could be. um so i would hope that people would stay open and curious to like a new way of evolution and through it and be more open to more curious about the lessons that the horses are trying to usher forward for us through all of this because i think this great awakening that's happening collectively non-horse um and the horses their own version of it is the way that they're doing it for us you know so the curiosity stay open stay curious i love that We have four rapid fire questions that we ask every guest.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:02:17-01:02:19]
It's like the first thing that comes to your mind.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:02:19-01:02:20]
Okay.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:02:21-01:02:22]
Do you have a motto or favorite saying?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:02:26-01:03:03]
There's two. I think it is what it is comes to mind because I just want to just be accepting of each moment. And if not this, then better. It's something that I find myself saying because I feel like when you're in growth and you're having these hard times, it's good to remember that it's all for a reason. And it's all for a purpose. And there's usually you can't see it when you're in it. But if not this and better, it reminds me that whatever I'm in, it's leading me to where I'm supposed to be. And I'm always guided. I'm always protected. And it's all for a purpose. So I think that one I like to use a lot. I love that.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:03:04-01:03:07]
Who has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey?

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:03:07-01:03:24]
Do you know, I read this and I was like, I couldn't, I got stuck on it. I think it deleted everything from my brain from all of it. That is so hard. I would say the most influential. It has to, I mean, it doesn't have to be a person.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:03:24-01:03:26]
It doesn't. It really doesn't.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:03:26-01:05:41]
I'm going to allow it. Yeah. The four horses I have right now have been the most influential. I've had horses before this, but these ones now that I have are so specifically here for me. an exact purpose and i can see it in each of them and they all hold me so accountable and um continue to love me through my learnings and my not understandings and my periods where i have had them when i was doing horsemanship that's how they were started and they've allowed me to understand and unwind and do things different and they stuck with me and they've been open to my entire learning progress and have not ever hated me through it I love that so them for sure these ones specifically I think because of their individual roles it took four of them to get me here so I have to thank all of them if you could give equestrians one piece of advice what would it be be kind to yourself through the process um i think what happened when i realized that there was a different and a better way i sunk into guilt a little bit and i got hard on myself and um yeah and i somehow equated guilt to how much i cared and how much i regretted and how much i um and the things you don't want to carry are regret rejection you know um I can never remember. There's four hours. Regret, rejection. Whatever. There's four. Those are the important ones. You don't want to carry that with you. So just being kind and going, I didn't know what I knew. You know, it is what it is. I didn't know. And now I know. But once you know the responsibility to go, okay, how can I choose different now? But to be easy with yourself there and people get so hard on themselves. And so, and you know, I understand that, but it doesn't actually serve yourself or your horse. So to just accept, yep, that's what I did. Horses chose to do this with me and we're here now. We can do things differently here forward.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:05:41-01:05:47]
Yeah. Please complete this sentence. For me, horses are...

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:05:50-01:06:16]
For me, my horses are my guides. I feel like they guide me when I get like, I don't know what to do when I get overwhelmed and I go sit out there and they're like, okay, here, are you ready? Are you ready to hear? Are you ready and open? Are you listening? They're my guides. They've carried me and guided me through each of the different phases of my life that I've been in and to where I'm at now. And I don't expect that they're going to stop doing that anytime soon.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:06:19-01:07:07]
I just want to say Amber too, I have resonated so much with everything you've been saying in this. And I'm just, I'm so glad that you've, you've come on because I, I think it's going to be really important for our audience to hear as well. And there were so many times I felt myself taking big breaths and, and I've had this thing lately where it's like, sometimes my breath, it doesn't feel like I can even breathe deep enough. And I've come to this realization where I'm like, Oh, I think I'm like expanding and my human shell, like, you know, like I'm almost like, Oh, growing this human shell of myself. So I'm like breathing bigger. And there were so many times where I'm like, Hey, I feel those big breaths. And so just, yeah. Thank you for everything that you've been saying and, and doing and teaching and, and all of the things. Thank you.

[SPEAKER 1]
[01:07:08-01:07:10]
Yeah. Thank you for having me on. It was so much fun.

[SPEAKER 2]
[01:07:14-01:07:48]
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Equestrian Connection podcast by WeHorse. If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to us if you could leave us a rating and review, as well as share us on social media. You can find us on Instagram at WeHorse underscore USA and check out our free seven-day trial on WeHorse.com where you can access over 175 courses with top trainers from around the world in a variety of topics and disciplines. Until next time, be kind to yourself, your horses, and others.

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